Consultancy and ID cost

[Kellhound 4]

50 minutes ago, snoozee said:

are you sure it is PVC and not PPR? PVC for waste pipes and temporary water pipes yes. never heard of PVC being used for fresh water pipes although it is used as electrical wire conduits.

my house was done with stainless steel pipes. plumber told me that copper nowadays isn't that pure so copper pipes more problematic and prone to leaks now. but maybe also because of cost as well cos copper cost is much higher than stainless steel which is why my plumber used SS instead.
my plumber also used crimped joints for the stainless steel pipes. you can't crimp copper pipes though they can be welded.

PPR pipes need to be joined with heat and more troublesome. my plumber was complaining about how troublesome it is to do for his other job site. my understanding for PPR is that the pipe size is bigger so more troublesome to conceal in walls. also with plastics, there will be a limited lifespan and PPR is stated with a lifespan of about 50 years.

Sorry it should be PPR and not PVC.

According to my contractor, the cost of PPR is almost the same as SS. It needs a much thicker wall for concealment and when pipe is punctured, It's very hard to repair, coz cannot be welded. Copper is more expensive and it will get corroded over time. He recommends SS as it is the most hardy, cost is cheaper and won't get corrosion. 

So just wanted some 2nd opinions.

[snoozee 97]

17 minutes ago, Kellhound said:

Sorry it should be PPR and not PVC.

According to my contractor, the cost of PPR is almost the same as SS. It needs a much thicker wall for concealment and when pipe is punctured, It's very hard to repair, coz cannot be welded. Copper is more expensive and it will get corroded over time. He recommends SS as it is the most hardy, cost is cheaper and won't get corrosion. 

So just wanted some 2nd opinions.

You need special equipment to weld PPR for leaks. 
copper won’t corrode else it wouldn’t have been used for so long in HDB flats and old developments. It’s more to costing as prices of raw copper has exceeded that of SS. of cos unless the purity of copper pipes nowadays is questionable which leads to the corrosion reason. 
 

i suggest that if you can, go down to site often during the works and take photos of the pipes when they are installed. This is so that you have a record of where the pipes are in case you need to drill holes into the walls in future. 

[Kellhound 4]

2 hours ago, snoozee said:

You need special equipment to weld PPR for leaks. 
copper won’t corrode else it wouldn’t have been used for so long in HDB flats and old developments. It’s more to costing as prices of raw copper has exceeded that of SS. of cos unless the purity of copper pipes nowadays is questionable which leads to the corrosion reason. 
 

i suggest that if you can, go down to site often during the works and take photos of the pipes when they are installed. This is so that you have a record of where the pipes are in case you need to drill holes into the walls in future. 

Copper does oxidize(turn green), right? May add metallic flavour to water?

[snoozee 97]

42 minutes ago, Kellhound said:

Copper does oxidize(turn green), right? May add metallic flavour to water?

Copper oxide is due to exposure with water and carbon dioxide. If the water pipe is filled with water, then no carbon dioxide to react how to turn to oxide?

[Alkft 0]

Hi

18 hours ago, snoozee said:

even with own workers, specialist sub-contractors would need to be involved in the construction/renovation and these are the variables.

the main difference between having an architect vs direct with a D&B firm is that you have someone else doing the project management for your as well as looking after your interests. not to mention that a proper tender can be called by the architect for you to get the best quote rather than just signing off on a quotation from a D&B firm without knowing if you are over paying for it or not.

500-600k I would say is enough if planned properly.

if the house's main waste pipes are already PVC ones, then whether to change them or not is up to you. if still cast iron pipes then best is change them. other things to change are the water pipes and electrical wirings. add sufficient network points for your rooms as well. parquet can be sanded down and varnished again to "renew" it.

since you are extending the rear, you will end up needing a roof to cover the rear extension. so whether to extend your attic to cover the extension as well as to extend the main roof is up to you. 

thanks for the information! And for kindly taking time to give me so much advice. 
 

would I be able to clarify then, you do not agree the design and build company mentioning that if I want to extend level 2 and level 3, I might as well do up attic , close up Airwell to fully increase gfa? perhaps some sales tactic to push for more money spends? The design  d build company I met has an in-house architect though. But professional engineer they would be hiring external one for the building structure drawings 

A more reasonable timeline for construction in current covid situation would be 8 months with leeway for any rectifications needed after handover?

For the water pipes- these will only be known when hacking done and pipes exposed so as to to see if they are made of which material ya?

in what situation would u say a design and build firm be more suitable an option versus architect route ?

[snoozee 97]

55 minutes ago, Alkft said:

Hi

thanks for the information! And for kindly taking time to give me so much advice. 
 

would I be able to clarify then, you do not agree the design and build company mentioning that if I want to extend level 2 and level 3, I might as well do up attic , close up Airwell to fully increase gfa? perhaps some sales tactic to push for more money spends? The design  d build company I met has an in-house architect though. But professional engineer they would be hiring external one for the building structure drawings 

A more reasonable timeline for construction in current covid situation would be 8 months with leeway for any rectifications needed after handover?

For the water pipes- these will only be known when hacking done and pipes exposed so as to to see if they are made of which material ya?

in what situation would u say a design and build firm be more suitable an option versus architect route ?

If it was me, i would leave the air well alone. the air well will provide additional ventilation for your house as well. an inter terrace normally has openings in front and back and that's where the air flow comes and goes from. but the air well allows another path for hot air to escape from the house.
when you extend level 2 and 3, your level 3 would need a roof over it. so either you construct a roof over level 3 or you cast concreate floor to use as roof. if cast concreate floor to use as level 3 roof, you might as well use that level 3 roof as your attic floor's extension and construct the roof over the attic which joins back to the main roof.

contractors will always push for more things to be done so that the contract sum goes up and they make more money off your job. so it is up to you as the owner to decide if you want to do the additional work or not.
if the company has a lot of jobs, then they can afford to have an in-house architect. but normally builders will just find an architect who is willing to sign off on the plans for a fee.

normally there will be a damage liability period of 12 months from handover for rectifications. the current situation is very fluid and we don't know if we will go back to CB or not. do note that construction delays due to CB and such cannot be claimed from the contractors so long as government has it down in the law. so if the contract stated 5 months and work isn't completed by then due to covid delays, you can't claim LD from the contractor as long as the law forbids you to do so. Currently this law has been extended to 30 sept 2021 and i believe the government will extend it further as and when it is necessary.

old houses normally has copper water pipes installed. I think other types of water pipes like SS or PPR only became more popular in the last 10 years or so though i may be wrong about this.

Which route to choose really depends on personal preference and how extensive is your job. if your job is very straight forward and you have full trust in your contractor, then you don't need an architect. if you want to make more changes to your house in terms of layouts and design elements, and also have someone to look after your interests and do project management for you, then an architect may be a better option.

Edited May 6, 2021 by snoozee

[petetherock 13]

I changed my pipes during my renovations (not A&A). I felt that since the home was built in the 90s, a new set of pipes will be better.
We used copper with a larger calibre for higher water flow. No regrets. Very happy with that decision. 
PVC was used for waste pipes.

IMO, anything less than 8 months for A&A is a tad too optimistic right now.

[IceEyez 4]

22 hours ago, Alkft said:

Hi yes I thought the design and build company was very ambitious in saying 5 months for construction, and when I asked how can it be possible, he says he has his own workers. 
 

Thank you for your reply. May I then ask for advice - would such an endeavor A&A with main aim of creating 2 more bedrooms And 1 more common toilet , moving pillar at front porch for an interterrace, u would advise to go architect consultancy or with design and build firm? This is our first landed so we are very clueless. 
And estimate on such A&A with full interior renovation ( we don’t need marble flooring), would it be 500-600k? Or higher?
 

also with the age of the inter terrace being built back in 1993, would the waste pipes, roofing all mans parquet be ok to keep as is?

The Airwell - the previous owner had made it such that water / rain doesn’t come in  

so far with the rainy season, I haven’t seen any leaks. The place was bought from first owner who did do regular maintenance of roof and painting. 

Just to careful regarding the % elevation change too. Aside from GFA increase <50%, the facade cannot change more than 50% too. Otherwise it will be considered as "Recon".

For inter-terrace houses, since there are only 2 facades - front and back, the moment you extend the entire rear, you are looking at 50% change already.

And 5 months to do 2/3rd extension is almost impossible in today's context, unless this guy is prepared to pay for workers through the nose (which in other words charging you crazy amounts) to secure the workers. One of our projects where we just called for tender (extend 1st and 2nd storey only at the rear + redo whole of interior),  we set the base duration at 7 months but quite a few of the tenderer all counter proposed a 8-9 months duration instead.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by IceEyez

[Alkft 0]

7 hours ago, snoozee said:

If it was me, i would leave the air well alone. the air well will provide additional ventilation for your house as well. an inter terrace normally has openings in front and back and that's where the air flow comes and goes from. but the air well allows another path for hot air to escape from the house.
when you extend level 2 and 3, your level 3 would need a roof over it. so either you construct a roof over level 3 or you cast concreate floor to use as roof. if cast concreate floor to use as level 3 roof, you might as well use that level 3 roof as your attic floor's extension and construct the roof over the attic which joins back to the main roof.

contractors will always push for more things to be done so that the contract sum goes up and they make more money off your job. so it is up to you as the owner to decide if you want to do the additional work or not.
if the company has a lot of jobs, then they can afford to have an in-house architect. but normally builders will just find an architect who is willing to sign off on the plans for a fee.

normally there will be a damage liability period of 12 months from handover for rectifications. the current situation is very fluid and we don't know if we will go back to CB or not. do note that construction delays due to CB and such cannot be claimed from the contractors so long as government has it down in the law. so if the contract stated 5 months and work isn't completed by then due to covid delays, you can't claim LD from the contractor as long as the law forbids you to do so. Currently this law has been extended to 30 sept 2021 and i believe the government will extend it further as and when it is necessary.

old houses normally has copper water pipes installed. I think other types of water pipes like SS or PPR only became more popular in the last 10 years or so though i may be wrong about this.

Which route to choose really depends on personal preference and how extensive is your job. if your job is very straight forward and you have full trust in your contractor, then you don't need an architect. if you want to make more changes to your house in terms of layouts and design elements, and also have someone to look after your interests and do project management for you, then an architect may be a better option.

thank you once again for the info. 
 

when you mention cast a roof over third floor extension, means join up to the pre-existing roof? So that part of the extension then do a false ceiling under the new roof. ( option A)

versus do a concrete slab roof and then this “concrete flat roof” can become attic. With this , does it mean existing roof is removed and do up new roof or also can extend From part of existing roof? ( option B)

Would option B then increase gfa and if over 50% becomes a recon versus an A&A?

I think the option B is what the contractor I met meant to say that doing second and third floor extension, might as well do up to the attic with concrete slab roof for level 3 extension. 
 

for pre existing roofing from a place built back in year ‘93, is it possible to keep the existing roof if no signs of leak? Or better to change 

copper pipes can last for a long time? These things will be assessed by contractor during the renovation process ?

thanks for highlighting about the liability period. 
does it mean if they state in contract complete by 5 months and they don’t  manage to and cite it as due to covid, we can’t really fight them over it ya?

 

for Airwell, is there a minimum size it should be? And for it to be a possible future lift - what size should it be for that possibility in the future?

Edited May 6, 2021 by Alkft
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[Alkft 0]

5 hours ago, IceEyez said:

Just to careful regarding the % elevation change too. Aside from GFA increase <50%, the facade cannot change more than 50% too. Otherwise it will be considered as "Recon".

For inter-terrace houses, since there are only 2 facades - front and back, the moment you extend the entire rear, you are looking at 50% change already.

And 5 months to do 2/3rd extension is almost impossible in today's context, unless this guy is prepared to pay for workers through the nose (which in other words charging you crazy amounts) to secure the workers. One of our projects where we just called for tender (extend 1st and 2nd storey only at the rear + redo whole of interior),  we set the base duration at 7 months but quite a few of the tenderer all counter proposed a 8-9 months duration instead.  

Hi ! Thanks for highlighting about facade change. Ah then most likely If we do the second and third floor extensions , which effectively changes the rear facade, and we want to widen all the windows which includes those at the front , and move pillar in middle of Front car porch —- it would already be >50% and wouldnt qualify as just A&A? 
recon projects - able to just do lodgement ?

able share for the project u mentioned which sounds similar to ours - estimate total quotation is how much?

[Alkft 0]

7 hours ago, petetherock said:

I changed my pipes during my renovations (not A&A). I felt that since the home was built in the 90s, a new set of pipes will be better.
We used copper with a larger calibre for higher water flow. No regrets. Very happy with that decision. 
PVC was used for waste pipes.

IMO, anything less than 8 months for A&A is a tad too optimistic right now.

Thanks for the info! Will look out for what the existing pipes are. If copper and everything seems ok, will keep to that. 

[Kellhound 4]

1 hour ago, Alkft said:

thank you once again for the info. 
 

when you mention cast a roof over third floor extension, means join up to the pre-existing roof? So that part of the extension then do a false ceiling under the new roof. ( option A)

versus do a concrete slab roof and then this “concrete flat roof” can become attic. With this , does it mean existing roof is removed and do up new roof or also can extend From part of existing roof? ( option B)

Would option B then increase gfa and if over 50% becomes a recon versus an A&A?

I think the option B is what the contractor I met meant to say that doing second and third floor extension, might as well do up to the attic with concrete slab roof for level 3 extension. 
 

for pre existing roofing from a place built back in year ‘93, is it possible to keep the existing roof if no signs of leak? Or better to change 

copper pipes can last for a long time? These things will be assessed by contractor during the renovation process ?

thanks for highlighting about the liability period. 
does it mean if they state in contract complete by 5 months and they don’t  manage to and cite it as due to covid, we can’t really fight them over it ya?

 

for Airwell, is there a minimum size it should be? And for it to be a possible future lift - what size should it be for that possibility in the future?

I agree that airwell is good for inter-terrace as it brings in light and airflow. In general, I would even say it is a selling point as most inter-terraces don't have it. Should keep it unless you really really need to reclaim the space.

Provisioning for lift should be at least 1.5m x 1.5m space depending on type of lift.  

[snoozee 97]

1 hour ago, Alkft said:

thank you once again for the info. 
 

when you mention cast a roof over third floor extension, means join up to the pre-existing roof? So that part of the extension then do a false ceiling under the new roof. ( option A)

versus do a concrete slab roof and then this “concrete flat roof” can become attic. With this , does it mean existing roof is removed and do up new roof or also can extend From part of existing roof? ( option B)

Would option B then increase gfa and if over 50% becomes a recon versus an A&A?

I think the option B is what the contractor I met meant to say that doing second and third floor extension, might as well do up to the attic with concrete slab roof for level 3 extension. 
 

for pre existing roofing from a place built back in year ‘93, is it possible to keep the existing roof if no signs of leak? Or better to change 

copper pipes can last for a long time? These things will be assessed by contractor during the renovation process ?

thanks for highlighting about the liability period. 
does it mean if they state in contract complete by 5 months and they don’t  manage to and cite it as due to covid, we can’t really fight them over it ya?

 

for Airwell, is there a minimum size it should be? And for it to be a possible future lift - what size should it be for that possibility in the future?

I don’t know your current roof profile now so I can only assume that your attic roof end is touching the corner of your 3storey top corner. So if this is the case, your new 3rd storey roof could be joined to the existing roof or constructed slightly lower so that it starts under the roof edge. 
 

your option b will most likely need to redo the roof and give it a new roof profile. 
 

whether you want to touch the roof now or not is up to you. If you don’t wish to redo it, at least get the contractor to look at it and check for leaks. 
 

yes, you can’t sue the builder for delays due to COVID as they are protected by law against this for now. So even if the project was scheduled for 5 months and end up taking 1 year, you can’t sue as long as the provision in the law still exists 

there’s no standard size for air well. But for lift shaft, 1.5m x 1.5m is the bare minimum. You might be able to get by with smaller size for platform lifts. Do note that lifts do require a lift pit so there will be a need to excavate should you decide to put in a lift years down the road. 

[Alkft 0]

1 hour ago, snoozee said:

I don’t know your current roof profile now so I can only assume that your attic roof end is touching the corner of your 3storey top corner. So if this is the case, your new 3rd storey roof could be joined to the existing roof or constructed slightly lower so that it starts under the roof edge. 
 

your option b will most likely need to redo the roof and give it a new roof profile. 
 

whether you want to touch the roof now or not is up to you. If you don’t wish to redo it, at least get the contractor to look at it and check for leaks. 
 

yes, you can’t sue the builder for delays due to COVID as they are protected by law against this for now. So even if the project was scheduled for 5 months and end up taking 1 year, you can’t sue as long as the provision in the law still exists 

there’s no standard size for air well. But for lift shaft, 1.5m x 1.5m is the bare minimum. You might be able to get by with smaller size for platform lifts. Do note that lifts do require a lift pit so there will be a need to excavate should you decide to put in a lift years down the road. 

Thanks for the info! Will take your advice and have the contractor check the roof. 
for option B, would the roof towards front of the house which houses the opening of the Airwell need to be changed as well? Or just the roof slope towards the rear?

was told by a contractor changing facade of the house due to extensions won’t affect the works done to be under A&A - is this true?? 

and grateful to be informed about this law which protects the contractors against delays during covid situation. 

would u think it is a good idea to have the excavation done now, if we intend to keep the Airwell , to future proof the house for a lift to be installed? Or this can be done in the future when want to install a lift ? Roughly how much is this excavation ?

would opening a light well over where the staircase is serve similar purpose as an Airwell? Or only serve to help with brightness 

hm the Airwell now doesn’t allow water/rainfall to come in, but I’m not sure if it’s completely sealed shut or just have the slopes done over the opening to have water / rain flow further down and onto the roof , and not come into the Airwell opening above. 
 

Any advice , for a nearly 30’year old house, during renovation, definitely should change electrical , upgrade electrical power... any other aspects should have it done in view of the age ?

- pipes from previous discussion, if assessed ok, and if copper, can keep as is 

- roof to have it checked and if no leakage, just ensure touch up water proofing , and no need to change 

How about pest control ? Advisable to have it done? Contractor should be able to advise on when to organize it?

[Alkft 0]

2 hours ago, Kellhound said:

I agree that airwell is good for inter-terrace as it brings in light and airflow. In general, I would even say it is a selling point as most inter-terraces don't have it. Should keep it unless you really really need to reclaim the space.

Provisioning for lift should be at least 1.5m x 1.5m space depending on type of lift.  

Yes Airwell has its positives , but the current layout on first floor is living room , few steps up and dining area with the Airwell on the right and such that the Airwell dips a few steps down. A common toilet opens into the Airwell and then a granny room. 
after the dining room on left, is the stairways and then the kitchen behind 

 

we would love an open concept kitchen but seems current original layout won’t allow so. Contractor suggested switching the layout over. But that would involve moving position of toilet. Wondering if such switch if layout , whereby toilet pipes etc will be involved, is it fairly commonly done or it would make the interior reno very complicated and very much higher cost involved ?