Electrical works quote

[petetherock 13]

That’s the optical cable

you can get your electric or open net guy to plug in a longer run to your router. 

[Topline 1]

19 minutes ago, petetherock said:

That’s the optical cable

you can get your electric or open net guy to plug in a longer run to your router. 

A bit concerned cos the optical cable will need to be run up to the ceiling above the false ceiling to another part of the 1st floor. If there's a problem in the future with this cable, i would have to pull it out somehow from the inside the false ceiling and replace without damaging the false ceiling. I thought it could be easier to just move the OTP to the router, so I dun need to run the optical cable in the ceiling etc.

[snoozee 97]

@Topline you have a few options.

1. leave the OTP in current location and have the ONT/ONR there as well. then pull a LAN cable from this location to where you want your router to be inside your cabinet.

2.leave the OTP in current location. Get your electrician to install another OTP at the location with a thicker black optic fiber from this location to your cabinet location where there will be another OTP. the original OTP will be connected to this new OTP using the thin yellow optic fiber cable. the other new OTP in your cabinet will then be used to connect your ONT/ONR again using another yellow optic fiber cable.

3. get NLT to relocate the current OTP all the way back to your meter compartment. then get your contractor to pull a new thick black optic fiber cable from the meter compartment back to where your cabinet is. However, this is also provided that your meter compartment has the space and necessary lead-in pipes from outside the house to route the optic fiber from NLT's distribution point somewhere outside your house. you will then also need to have another lead-in pipe from the meter compartment back into your house.

Costing wise, 1 would be cheapest whereas 3 will be most expensive. Just to share, I paid NLT more than 1K (subsidized) to run a new optic fiber from their distribution point to my meter compartment because my contractor cut the original cable.

As for how much space is needed for your switch, it all depends on the model you purchase. My POE switch cum WIFI controller has a depth of 43cm. add in the C13 plug behind this will be about 48cm. So the minimum depth I would need is about 50cm for my switch after catering for cable bend as well. If you are getting a unifi dream machine pro, it has a depth of 29cm. add in 5cm plus another 2cm for C13 plug and cable bend, you will need 36cm in depth. then you also need to cater for another 5cm or so for the RJ45 plugs in front will give you a total of 41cm in depth needed. so 32cm of cabinet depth is hardly enough. Unless you buy those small desktop switches which has a smaller depth of say 20cm, then you can make use of that cabinet space. Search online for the specifications of the switch you have shortlisted and see what is the depth. Also see what type of power plug and power supply is used for the switch. Usually rack mounted switches will use standard C13 plug whereas desktop switches will have it's own external power supply hence just using a small plug. But since you are looking at 24 or 48 port POE switches, your 32cm space will not be enough. see the sample dimensions (H x W x D) of HPE POE switches below.

HPE OfficeConnect 1920 24G PoE+ (370 W) Switch (JG926A)

4.4 x 44 x 26 cm (1.73 x 17.32 x 10.24 in) (1U Height)

HPE OfficeConnect 1920 48G PoE+ (370 W) Switch (JG928A)

4.4 x 44 x 44 cm (1.73 x 17.32 x 17.32 in) (1U Height)

[Topline 1]

43 minutes ago, snoozee said:

@Topline you have a few options.

1. leave the OTP in current location and have the ONT/ONR there as well. then pull a LAN cable from this location to where you want your router to be inside your cabinet.

2.leave the OTP in current location. Get your electrician to install another OTP at the location with a thicker black optic fiber from this location to your cabinet location where there will be another OTP. the original OTP will be connected to this new OTP using the thin yellow optic fiber cable. the other new OTP in your cabinet will then be used to connect your ONT/ONR again using another yellow optic fiber cable.

3. get NLT to relocate the current OTP all the way back to your meter compartment. then get your contractor to pull a new thick black optic fiber cable from the meter compartment back to where your cabinet is. However, this is also provided that your meter compartment has the space and necessary lead-in pipes from outside the house to route the optic fiber from NLT's distribution point somewhere outside your house. you will then also need to have another lead-in pipe from the meter compartment back into your house.

Costing wise, 1 would be cheapest whereas 3 will be most expensive. Just to share, I paid NLT more than 1K (subsidized) to run a new optic fiber from their distribution point to my meter compartment because my contractor cut the original cable.

As for how much space is needed for your switch, it all depends on the model you purchase. My POE switch cum WIFI controller has a depth of 43cm. add in the C13 plug behind this will be about 48cm. So the minimum depth I would need is about 50cm for my switch after catering for cable bend as well. If you are getting a unifi dream machine pro, it has a depth of 29cm. add in 5cm plus another 2cm for C13 plug and cable bend, you will need 36cm in depth. then you also need to cater for another 5cm or so for the RJ45 plugs in front will give you a total of 41cm in depth needed. so 32cm of cabinet depth is hardly enough. Unless you buy those small desktop switches which has a smaller depth of say 20cm, then you can make use of that cabinet space. Search online for the specifications of the switch you have shortlisted and see what is the depth. Also see what type of power plug and power supply is used for the switch. Usually rack mounted switches will use standard C13 plug whereas desktop switches will have it's own external power supply hence just using a small plug. But since you are looking at 24 or 48 port POE switches, your 32cm space will not be enough. see the sample dimensions (H x W x D) of HPE POE switches below.

HPE OfficeConnect 1920 24G PoE+ (370 W) Switch (JG926A)

4.4 x 44 x 26 cm (1.73 x 17.32 x 10.24 in) (1U Height)

HPE OfficeConnect 1920 48G PoE+ (370 W) Switch (JG928A)

4.4 x 44 x 44 cm (1.73 x 17.32 x 17.32 in) (1U Height)

Thanks. Do you think there will be improved performance with option 2 over option 1? Or you are thinking that the black thicker optic fiber is less likely to be spoilt in the future? Agree that Option 3 sounds not-doable.

Looks like i have to relook at my location for my Router and POE Switch. If i place them in my TV cabinet, do you think it will affect my speakers or vice versa? I shouldn't think so since these are wired connections - not wifi.

[snoozee 97]

the thicker black fiber optic cable is what NLT uses as well so will be more hardy for longer runs esp when need to bend in more areas.

option 2 will provide you slightly more flexibility if you intend to upgrade or subscribe to multiple service providers since the OTP from NLT default will have 2 ports usable. So by pulling another optic fiber from the original OTP and having a new one in your TV cabinet, you can have the option to use one port for internet and another port for cable TV. the LAN cable option will mean you are stuck with just one service unless you pull another LAN cable as standby.

Also, do note that most service providers uses a different port on the ONT for cable TV and internet. so if you have only 1 LAN port at the OTP location, you will have a big problem as you cannot run both sets of service over 1 LAN cable. but with option 2, the traffic is still through the optic fiber cable and at your cabinet side, you can do the necessary connections you need for cable TV and internet.

Another thing is that if you are planning to have cable TV and internet, you may want to get a switch that can do VLAN so that traffic from different sources will be distributed differently within the switch. Else there might be issues if you plug everything into a normal switch with no traffic segregation. Of cos the other option is to have 2 separate switches, one for cable TV and another for the internet usage. 

i'm not an audiophile so no comments on speakers. even for my house, I just bought some speakers off Amazon to install in my walls so that can turn on my radio tuner and listen to music in the living room when needed.

for location of internet equipment, make sure you have plenty of space for the cables. it's not a joke trying to organise 20 to 30 cat 6 cables in a small confined space

[Topline 1]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:35 PM, snoozee said:

Depends on your NVR model. Mine allows me to view the footage from a mobile app. But more search functionality when viewed directly from the NVR via monitor

One question on viewing CCTV on mobile apps. Is it possible to view both POE CCTVs and wifi CCTVs (which i may have a couple placed in the house) within the same app?

I'm thinking of getting a 24 port switch but just in case i want to add more CCTVs and my switch ports are maxed out, i'm thinking i will add wifi CCTVs instead. But i would prefer to view all CCTVs (wifi and POE) within the same app.

Actually, if this works, i can also reduce the number of LANs to run/ hide in the ceiling ... i could just change all indoor CCTVs to wifi ones. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Topline
Error

[snoozee 97]

46 minutes ago, Topline said:

One question on viewing CCTV on mobile apps. Is it possible to view both POE CCTVs and wifi CCTVs (which i may have a couple placed in the house) within the same app?

I'm thinking of getting a 24 port switch but just in case i want to add more CCTVs and my switch ports are maxed out, i'm thinking i will add wifi CCTVs instead. But i would prefer to view all CCTVs (wifi and POE) within the same app.

Actually, if this works, i can also reduce the number of LANs to run/ hide in the ceiling ... i could just change all indoor CCTVs to wifi ones. 

if your CCTVs are all from the same manufacturer, I suppose it won't be an issue to view them all using the same app since ultimately all the CCTVs are within the same network. Again, do your own diligence and check with the seller or online for the specifications.
Even if you run less LAN points, it will mean you need to run more power points for your WIFI CCTV. the CCTVs need to be powered somehow either by POE or through a power brick. Honestly, using POE is much a cleaner installation than a 13A socket and power brick.

Do also note that POE switches has a max power output rating as well so if you have too many POE devices and your POE switch has a low power rating, you can't power everything up.

for me, my CCTVs are connected to the NVR which has POE function as well so make things easier for me.

[Topline 1]

20 hours ago, snoozee said:

for me, my CCTVs are connected to the NVR which has POE function as well so make things easier for me.

Snoozee, can you please elaborate why connecting CCTVs to NVR is an easier or better set up?

[snoozee 97]

38 minutes ago, Topline said:

Snoozee, can you please elaborate why connecting CCTVs to NVR is an easier or better set up?

it's all personal preference.

firstly, equipment don't last forever and will fail without warning. this means that network switches or NVR or cameras will fail suddenly. When things fail, it's easier to troubleshoot less items than more. So direct connection of CCTV to NVR will basically eliminate the possibility of the network switch and/or LAN cable failure if you are using your network switch as the POE supply and connecting the switch to the NVR via LAN cable.

I have experienced network switches partially failing and troubleshooting is a pain and time wasting as well.

Also it depends on how many LAN points you have at home as well. A 24 port network switch technically can only have 23 ports used since you will need to use 1 port to connect to upstream router. If you are connecting to another NVR, means you are left with 22 free ports. So if your total number of LAN points and CCTVs exceed 22, then you either need to buy another network switch or use a NVR which already has POE switches to connect the CCTVs to.

CCTVs recording is usually 24/7 so it means that network traffic is flowing constantly. So I would rather have the network traffic flowing directly from the cameras to the NVR instead of through another network switch via a single LAN cable.

Anyway a POE NVR doesn't cost that much more than a single network port NVR. But you might have to pay more for a POE switch which can supply higher power output and POE ports to support all your devices.

[Topline 1]

Guys, did you install telephone points in addition to data points in your rooms? Wondering if i should ....

[snoozee 97]

41 minutes ago, Topline said:

Guys, did you install telephone points in addition to data points in your rooms? Wondering if i should ....

I have telephone points for every room including the household shelter. All are connected to an internal PBX so I can do internal intercom between rooms/floors. Also have a telephone installed inside my home lift so in case of emergencies can call for help.

Anyway all my telephone points are run using Cat6 cables and RJ45 keystones so I can switch them to data points if I want to or convert any data point to become a telephone point. This is why I have all my cables terminated at my store and into a server rack so I can do the changes easily by just changing where each patch cable plugs into on the patch panel.

[Topline 1]

Hi all, I have a lot of difficulty finding a fanless NVR for my CCTVs (7-8 of them, indoor and outdoor). Resigned to have fan but the reviews about NVR fan noise is terrible. Can I pls ask if you guys have any models to share, which is not so noisy?

[snoozee 97]

55 minutes ago, Topline said:

Hi all, I have a lot of difficulty finding a fanless NVR for my CCTVs (7-8 of them, indoor and outdoor). Resigned to have fan but the reviews about NVR fan noise is terrible. Can I pls ask if you guys have any models to share, which is not so noisy?

fans are normally connected to the main board using removable connectors. If you die die don't want to hear any fan sound then just disconnect the fan connector. Of cos you risk overheating of the device in the long run depending on which fan(s) you disconnect. I believe some NVR will have fan to provide for overall ventilation and some might also have fan to cool down the main chip on the main board.

Again if you are keeping your NVR in an enclosed area, why be so bothered about the sound from the fan. It's not as if the fan is generating sounds which are as loud as a busy highway or MRT running on the tracks.

[Topline 1]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:31 AM, snoozee said:

fans are normally connected to the main board using removable connectors. If you die die don't want to hear any fan sound then just disconnect the fan connector. Of cos you risk overheating of the device in the long run depending on which fan(s) you disconnect. I believe some NVR will have fan to provide for overall ventilation and some might also have fan to cool down the main chip on the main board.

Again if you are keeping your NVR in an enclosed area, why be so bothered about the sound from the fan. It's not as if the fan is generating sounds which are as loud as a busy highway or MRT running on the tracks.

I'm thinking of disconnecting the fan, then attach a silent fan in the cabinet. Like some of those used to cool laptops/ PCs.

Separately, would you know if it is easy to move electric sockets? Helping a friend with some renovation of a room but cos the bed and bedside table will be shifted, he is thinking of moving the electric sockets. My guess is that if it is along the same wall, probably possible to hack a bit of the wall and hide the wires to connect to original socket. But if it is not on the same wall, maybe not possible ... Any thoughts? Even on same wall, is it possible to put in two new sockets when originally there was only one?

[snoozee 97]

1 hour ago, Topline said:

I'm thinking of disconnecting the fan, then attach a silent fan in the cabinet. Like some of those used to cool laptops/ PCs.

Separately, would you know if it is easy to move electric sockets? Helping a friend with some renovation of a room but cos the bed and bedside table will be shifted, he is thinking of moving the electric sockets. My guess is that if it is along the same wall, probably possible to hack a bit of the wall and hide the wires to connect to original socket. But if it is not on the same wall, maybe not possible ... Any thoughts? Even on same wall, is it possible to put in two new sockets when originally there was only one?

Suggest you buy your DVR first then decide whether you need to modify it or add fans to the cabinet. Adding fans is useless if there's no outlet vent and cutting out holes may allow sound to exit which brings you back to square one.

relocation of electrical sockets in a room is not difficult. But if concealed then more problematic since it involves hacking the wall then patching back and painting. Very messy job. Easier to just run extension with surface mounted trunking. Adding another set of sockets is also ok as long as the entire circuit isn't overloaded. Must check the overall electrical plan to see the socket to be extended already has how many other sockets in the same circuit. Usually electrical sockets are installed with a 20A MCB on the DB side so if there's already devices pulling high amperage on the circuit, then not advisable to add more sockets as this can lead to overload and tripping.