Jeanius

Not so, if they change name or close down. Being in this trade for more then 10 years, i have seen so many companies close, change their names and sprung up somewhere else. Do an ROC search and the answers / signs are all there. There is nothing CASE can do either if they close shop even if you have the warranty certificate. That is why i said, layman terms "Buyers beware".

LEATHER GLOSSARY Crocking: Removing the crock, or excess coloring, that rubs off of a newly-dyed hide. Drum Dying: The process of coloring leather by tumbling it in a rotating drum immersed in dye. A very effective method allowing maximum dye penetration. Embossed Leather: Leather that has been "stamped" with a design or artificial texture under very high pressure. Used, for example, to create imitation alligator hide. Finish: Any enhancing effect applied to leather after it has been tanned. Examples are dyeing, embossing, buffing, antiquing, waxing, waterproofing, and so on. Full Grain Leather: Leather which has not been altered beyond hair removal. Full grain leather is the most genuine type of leather, as it retains all of the original texture and markings of the original hide. Glove Leather: Lambskin or other very soft leather typically used for gloves. Grain: A word used to describe the natural characteristics of an unprocessed hide, such as its pores, wrinkles, markings, and texture. Hand: A word used to describe the feel (i.e. softness or fullness) of leather, typically upholstery leather. Nubuc: A leather whose surface has been buffed and brushed to create a soft, velvety effect. Differs from suede in that while suede is created from the flesh (inner) side of a hide, nubuc is created using the grain (outer) side, giving it added strength and durability. Oil Tanned: Leather that is tanned using oils to create a very soft, pliable finish. Patina: The aura or luster that develops in a quality piece of leather with age. Perforated: Leather in which a pattern of small holes is stamped using a die. Pigmented Leather: Leather that has been coated with a flat surface color on top of or instead of the usual dye finish. Leather is usually pigmented to add durability and hide natural blemishes. Plating: The process of pressing leather under a heated plate. Often used in upholstery leather to mask imperfections. Pull-up: Describes the behavior of leather that has been treated with oils, waxes, and dyes in such a way that when the leather is pulled or stretched (i.e. on upholstery), the finish becomes lighter in the stretched areas. Considered a mark of high quality. Semi-Aniline: Aniline leather to which a matching pigment layer is added to even out the color and add protection. Split Leather: Leather made from the lower (inner or flesh side) layers of a hide that have been split away from the upper, or grain, layers. Split leather is more fragile than side leather or full-grain leather, and is typically used in the form of suede. Suede: Split leather that has been buffed and brushed to create a fuzzy surface feel. Upholstery Leather: Leather created from a whole hide and intended for use in furniture, automobiles, airplanes, and other upholstery applications. Vegetable Tanning: A method of hide tanning which utilizes materials from organic materials such as bark instead of the traditional chemicals. Vegetable tanned leather has greater body and firmness than traditionally-tanned leather. Weight: A term which describes the heaviness or thickness of leather. Typically given in ounces per square foot or millimeters (thickness).

COWHIDES - Introduction Cow hides are thick. The hide is usually "split" which means that the thickness is sliced into two pieces, making nearly two sheets of leather. One sheet of leather has the "grain" or what used to be the derma - the side that had the hair. This side is called grain leather or top-grain leather or top-side leather. This is the strongest and premium quality hide. The "split" is the underside of the hide. It has a suede look on both sides top and bottom. The leather is not as strong as grain leather and is nearly impossible to make water proof or even water resistant. Split leather is OK for some garments that do not require strength or integrity. All split leather is not the same. an earlier poster was correct, cowhide *is* thick. So thick, in fact, that there are several layers of epidermis (think of a sheet of plywood), most of which can be used in commercial tanning applications, but not all of which are close to being superior leather or suitable for higher quality leather goods. At the tannery, a leather hide is split into 2 layers – top grain and the lower grain or "split." The lower, bottom grain is the flesh piece and may be split one or more times. The splits are generally inferior, contain less fat, and are far less supple. Because of the lower fat content, more chromium salts have to be crammed into it during the tanning-curing process in order to make it more durable. This makes it almost as stiff as cardboard and so it needs a lot of working to be shaped to form.

As i have mentioned to you before, your company is not our competitor. I am glad that your company provide 5 years warranty on the leather upholstery. Shout it out loud in your adverts, i think you are the first in the world to offer this. Congrats, you will sure have more sales. You said before that you got nothing to hide, why now you say come down to your showroom be a mystery buyer and get answers. Nothing to hide, just post here for all to read. Now you become fortune teller also, just by reading my post you know my personality. Please stick to your customer service. You will need it.

Oh great, you are back. Please share with us the status of Sooks sofa. And don't forget the warranty thing. Thanks

Hey Dave Looks like someone dissapeared. I was thinking of putting up a new topic, all about leathers. You interested in contributing your thoughts and expertise for all members here.

Ivank Please check your warranty card to ensure that it covers the leather from peeling/cracking & tearing. I don't think it was a spelling error, you know what i mean.

musingaway Yes, there all companies which provide warranty on their leathers, but those are usually the mid-high grade ones. Which company will warranty the leather if they are using split/bonded/pvc/pu other then top grain cowhide. Usually, companies warranty a minimum of 1 year, but then again i feel that the minimum should be 2 years. As i have seen leather peel and tear after 18 months. I have a list which i compile about leather which i google from the www for a guide to our consumers and for training purpose. I do not know how to post it here. If you guys are interested, i can create a topic and post a long story there.

Samtheman Don't scare Sooks la, it might be those big head worms. If it's termites then ehee............ Use Insect Repellent first on the area, these will actually slow them down a little.

Hi Sooks Do look into your warranty card and read what the warranty covers. I am sure they would replace the sofa since it has just been delivered not too long ago. Don't worry too much as EL will not want to ruin their reputation. Take care.

Hi Twins I hope there is no misrepresentations here, therefore i would just like EL to clarify what the 5 years warranty covers, that's it. Why would i be so foolish to buy one of their sets when i am purchasing direct from manufacturers and just to post their warranty card here. There are so many happy customers of theirs here, i am sure they would like to share their warranty card of their purchase. All that i am asking, is asking a question which the representative of EL invite fellow members to ask. I am sorry if i am being too blunt with my thoughts on the topic. What's there to report about, it is up to the buyers eventually whom they want to purchase from and they have a right to know what they are getting. How about reporting that our public transport company (SMRT) is making millions of dollars from us all. I thought that public transport is to make it affordable for the public to get us from our home to work. I don't see why they should be making so much. As i have posted before, members here are internet savvy and they just need to 'google' anything to find the answers. http://www.ehow.com/search.html?q=what+is+corrected+grain+leather&skin=style&t=all (you can find all the answers about leather here) Yeah, time to put money where my mouth is. Time to have supper now. Shall check in again tomorrow to see if EL can tell us what the warranty covers.

Honestly is the best policy in today's world of doing business. Sometimes i wonder what is wrong if you tell the customer that this is Ox, bull or buffalo leather, as you say, if it is at a fair price, why not. But i am still insistent on the 5 years warranty, does it cover the leather upholstery, that is all. Simple question asked and answered with a lot of bull. I thought that he invited us to ask questions??

Sorry EL, you were never consider our competitor. We are in different league. It is just that i want consumers to know what we meant by warranty, being in furnishing business for the past 10 years, i have yet to have read any warranty on leather upholstery for 5 years. I am sorry that i make consumers doubt about your Company's warranty and assurance. I am sure your company will receive a lot of business answering questions on the WARRANTY. jeanius

I am sure most will agree with me that you are the empty vessel. All i am asking from you is that the 5 years warranty that you are so proud of that your Company is giving, DOES IT COVERS THE LEATHER UPHOLSTERY DUE TO PEELING / CRACKING AND TEARING, THAT IS ALL. You give me so much of a bull that i am envious that your company is affecting mine. My goodness, you are so pathetic.

I am posting here not because our business was affected, i am posting here because our business got better because of company like you here. I am not advertising, i am telling consumers facts about leather, which they want to know more about and not one sided facts which you presented. Bovine leather is so commonly use in Malaysia. I am just saying that if it is Cowhide leather, just say cowhide leather, don't use a term of Bovine leather if your company got nothing to hide. Retailers in Malaysia uses the term bovine leather because it is not cowhide, if it is cowhide, won't it be more authentic to use the word cowhide leather rather then 'bovine leather'. You must be kidding me, high net-worth clients buy EL??? Oh come on, economy is bad, but not that bad for this 'high net-worth' clients. Or you have your own company's term which you classified 'high net-worth'. Just tell all consumers here, do your Company cover 5 years warranty on their leather upholstery. if so, what are the layman conditions for this. Thank you. Yeah, i am slapping so hard on my face that i feel so sad that your company find it so hard to tell us if your 5 years warranty cover the leather upholstery. To all buyers of EL leather sofas, please kindly post the warranty card for us to understand.

maxxypane It is not a matter of paying a small deposit or a full payment here. It is the warranty card that will safeguard the consumer should things go wrong with the leather. As what EL said, you can't tell the difference between a split-leather and top grain leather, or an ox or a cowhide. So the warranty card is the ONLY protection that the consumers have here provided the company dosen't fold the next two years. Post the warranty card here for all to read so that they get gain more business if it clearly states that it covers the leather upholstery for 5 years. 5 years warranty for structure is the norm as structure of sofas dosen't usually give way, what about the foam inside, what kind of warranty. At the end of the day, buyers beware.

musingaway A very simple way to protect yourself here, ask if there is warranty for the leather upholstery, have a look at the warranty card, read it word by word on what it covers. Check if it covers the leather upholstery, usually check for a minimum of 2 years, if it peels or tears, does it cover the replacement of the upholstery. Never listen just on what the Salesman says, verbal warranty is not a warranty. Any sofa retailing in Singapore from $2,399 to $3,999 typically uses split-leather or bonded-leather. Why i know, cause i am a buyer for leather sofas, with that kind of prices you will never find 100% full top grain leather. For a standard, ask for the above warranty as it will safeguard you should you encounter leather problems 1 1/2-2 years down the road. And hopefully the company dosen't change name or ownership during this period. Wish you and all consumers here well. I am posting all these facts here as i am 'sick'n'tired' to read so many 'bulls' from Salesman here. Check this site for most of your questions regarding anything. http://www.ehow.com/search.html?q=what+is+corrected+grain+leather&skin=style&t=all Good luck.

Thanks Dave, you are absolutely right. Caveat Emptor.

Hi EL I do not know what you meant by Queen's english. Simple fact is that when we read a warranty card/certificate, we should read it word by word in layman's terms. Why should you hide if you think your company is so reputable, just post your warranty for all to read, it will be great and i assure you that your company will have more business. A company with a boss 'wu ta lang' and his history ih the furniture business, well, being in this industry we know more then what the public knows here. Why call it Full Bovine Leather when you said that your company uses cowhide leather. Bovines is a subfamily in Bovidae family, you are not trying to be misleading, you are safeguarding yourself. http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080806231617AAR4pev . Bovine is so much cheaper then cowhide, and usually split leather is used. Have you tell consumers how split-leather is processed and used for sofa upholstery. What Italian Company are you talking about "Vacggari", i google it and found nothing about this company. My company has been around for slightly more then 10 years now, paid-up capital is SGD$500,000. What is your company history and paid-up. I hope the public here google 'words' and 'terms' so as not just to hear what another Salesman is saying. And yes, only time will tell the quality of the leather used and the kind of company behind it. Caveat Emptor to all.

Just to share with all here, find out all about leather from this link. http://www.ehow.com/search.html?q=what+is+corrected+grain+leather&skin=style&t=all Google it and there are nothing in the www. that you can't find. Cheers

musingaway Agreed with the above answers. No matter which company you purchased from, get it written in black & white in your Sales Order what was translater between you and the Sales person. Top Grain / Split or Bovine or Cowhide leather, if it is Bovine, which animal? Thickness of the leather, which tannery is the leather from? Verbally the Sales people can say anything to close the sale, so buyers beware. The company history is also very important, they can promoise you 5 / 10 years warranty, but will they still be around in that period of years. If the company has not been around for 5 years, what makes you think that they will around the next 5 years. i am sure people who post here are internet savvy, just google the words and terms and you get all the answers from the www. Why listen to another Sale person answers here. This forum is supposed to be for consumers to share and not another Sales person whom to what i have read, not very knowledgeble about mid-high end furnitures to tell you what he thinks. GOOGLE FOR YOUR ANSWERS

Hi EL I notice that your company provide a 5 year warranty for their products. My question is does the 5 year warranty covers the sofa leather upholstery should it peel or split 2 years after normal household usage. Do your company charge if this happens or would your company or Zolano change the leather covers/upholstery free as part of the warranty. I have not read the terms and conditions of your warranty card, maybe you like to post it here for all to read and understand. Italian made leather sofa brands only provide 1 to 2 years warranty for their leather upholstery so i am quite impressed that your company is giving 5 years. Your company can provide 5 or 20 years, but will your company like so many others here in Singapore change management and company name after in business for 2 to 3 years. I google Bovine leather, and the leather could be buffalo, ox, water buffalo or other bovine animals. If it is cowhide, the term will be cowhide leather and not bovine leather. So which animal is your bovine leather from? All answers can be found if you google it. I am impressed with your replies here to boost your company business but after reading through your answers, i find that you are just advertising your company, that is why you got penalised and your treads got deleted. Oh yeah, btw i am in the furniture industry too. There is nothing to hide nowadays where answers can be found when you google it. Please post the warranty card and company's profile as an assurance to many whom have trusted your company. Cheers.