Led Downlights Means Paying $1,200 Every Ten Years?

[gryffindor 2]

Hi,

I was told that the drivers in the LED downlights would burn out in ten years and that I would have to change the whole assembly. Presuming that I need eight lights in the hall, 4 in 2 bedrooms, 4 in the bath 3 in the shower, 2 at the entrance. that's 33 downlights.

each costs $40. that means every ten years, I would have to spend $1,200 to replace all the lights? That's quite exhorbitant, isn't it????

What if i use the traditional downlights? Would that mean I only have to replace the bulbs?

[Pelect 3]

Hi,

I was told that the drivers in the LED downlights would burn out in ten years and that I would have to change the whole assembly. Presuming that I need eight lights in the hall, 4 in 2 bedrooms, 4 in the bath 3 in the shower, 2 at the entrance. that's 33 downlights.

each costs $40. that means every ten years, I would have to spend $1,200 to replace all the lights? That's quite exhorbitant, isn't it????

What if i use the traditional downlights? Would that mean I only have to replace the bulbs?

Two of the traditional downlights are PLC and the screw type E27 CFL. Both are fluorescent.

The PLC type uses an external ballast and the CFL has a built in ballast in the lamp. CFL is slightly more expansive than PLC.

If you use CFL, yes, the only thing you need to replace is the bulb.

If you use PLC, you need to match the correct ballast to the power rating of your light.

I am in the process of changing all my PLC to CFL.

[gryffindor 2]

Thanks for sharing Pelect. So, for the CFL, are the designs attractive or am i restricted to very mundane ones?

Sorry, why can't I fit LED bulbs into the downlight housings? Pardon me for my lack of knowledge.

I mean I referrred to the following link and the LED bulbs seem no different from other bulbs. Why would I need a driver for it? Can I buy downlight housings that can fit LED bulbs instead of LED drivers?

Edited September 2, 2013 by gryffindor

[Pelect 3]

Thanks for sharing Pelect. So, for the CFL, are the designs attractive or am i restricted to very mundane ones?

Sorry, why can't I fit LED bulbs into the downlight housings? Pardon me for my lack of knowledge.

I mean I referrred to the following link and the LED bulbs seem no different from other bulbs. Why would I need a driver for it? Can I buy downlight housings that can fit LED bulbs instead of LED drivers?

Design attractiveness is subjective. There are many types of designs so it's up to you to choose.

You can fit LED bulbs into downlight housings, you just have to find the right type. Some use converters which I dislike.

Personally, I don't bother with LEDs because the price is way too high and to me, they are not bright enough.

I like to have flexibility like changing to 5W, 11W, 18W, etc. so that's why I change to E27 CFL. Besides, I don't have to worry about matching ballast.

Also, E27 screw type base also allows you to put in LED instead of CFL should you decide to do so.

[gryffindor 2]

I see. So, just to clarify:

There are three types of downlight houings:

1) PLC

2) E27 CFL

3) LED (100% LED only)

#2 is the most flexible as it can accommodate the CFL bulbs and also the new Philips LED bubls with E27 screw type.

So why do people even bother selling or buying #3 since it's so expensive and inflexible when #2 is more flexible?

Pardon me, I know nuts about it and I don't want to be taken for a ride by my ID.

[Striker Ng 0]

Hi Gryffindor,

I too was concern about the replacement cost, but was told that LED downlight's driver are now separated from the housing and if blown, you just need to replace the driver which could cost as low as $15-20/....

I hope that if more ppl were to convert to LED, maybe just maybe the replacement cost would be just as cheap as replacing a Lightbulb in afew years time.

[Pelect 3]

I see. So, just to clarify:

There are three types of downlight houings:

1) PLC

2) E27 CFL

3) LED (100% LED only)

#2 is the most flexible as it can accommodate the CFL bulbs and also the new Philips LED bubls with E27 screw type.

So why do people even bother selling or buying #3 since it's so expensive and inflexible when #2 is more flexible?

Pardon me, I know nuts about it and I don't want to be taken for a ride by my ID.

One of the key advantage of LED is the long replacement cycle.

So if you have a light is that very difficult to replace as in an industrial setting, LED may be an attractive choice.

This thread below has a good discussion.

http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/49777-downlights-led-vs-plc-very-confuse/

On top of that, the move to LED is driven by lots of marketing and the price erosion.

If price is not a concern, by all means, go for LED. They are modern, generate less heat and have a longer replacement cycle.

(Buy the branded ones though, like philips, panasonic, etc. that have matching drivers)

The one thing you need to really think about is what happens if it is not bright enough or too bright (less likely).

So, you need more detailed planning when laying out your lights if you go for LED but I find this very difficult because it is only after you install everything then can you tell if the lighting suits your tastes and environment.

By the way, I should add I do have 3 E14 warm white screw type philips LED for my dinning light and they are way too dim even though I chose the highest wattage.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Pelect

[gryffindor 2]

Hi Gryffindor,

I too was concern about the replacement cost, but was told that LED downlight's driver are now separated from the housing and if blown, you just need to replace the driver which could cost as low as $15-20/....

I hope that if more ppl were to convert to LED, maybe just maybe the replacement cost would be just as cheap as replacing a Lightbulb in afew years time.

Hi,

Yes. If the driver and bulb were separated, I would definitely give it serious consideration. Because like i illustrated, 1200 for lights seems very very expensive.

Also, the shop I went to was an official Philips dealer and they didn't tell me about the newer models being separated from the drivers. So, I guess it's not offered by philips?

Edited September 2, 2013 by gryffindor

[gryffindor 2]

One of the key advantage of LED is the long replacement cycle.

So if you have a light is that very difficult to replace as in an industrial setting, LED may be an attractive choice.

This thread below has a good discussion.

http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/49777-downlights-led-vs-plc-very-confuse/

On top of that, the move to LED is driven by lots of marketing and the price erosion.

If price is not a concern, by all means, go for LED. They are modern, generate less heat and have a longer replacement cycle.

(Buy the branded ones though, like philips, panasonic, etc. that have matching drivers)

The one thing you need to really think about is what happens if it is not bright enough or too bright (less likely).

So, you need more detailed planning when laying out your lights if you go for LED but I find this very difficult because it is only after you install everything then can you tell if the lighting suits your tastes and environment.

By the way, I should add I do have 3 E14 warm white screw type philips LED for my dinning light and they are way too dim even though I chose the highest wattage.

Hi Prelect, what about in terms of colour temperature? Are the warm whites for LED and CFL the same? Or is LED nicer?

Also, how do I determine what lumen or watt to select?

Edited September 2, 2013 by gryffindor

[EdmundOng 0]

Hi gryffindor,

For philips downlights, the driver are all in-built together with the LED.

After 10 years, the cost of the LED might already gone down and new light technology might replace LED. So using current price to say it is expensive to replace in 10 years time is too extreme.

The current issue shall be willing to spend high up-front cost in installing LED over the rest e.g CFL.

Hi,

Yes. If the driver and bulb were separated, I would definitely give it serious consideration. Because like i illustrated, 1200 for lights seems very very expensive.

Also, the shop I went to was an official Philips dealer and they didn't tell me about the newer models being separated from the drivers. So, I guess it's not offered by philips?

[Pelect 3]

Hi Prelect, what about in terms of colour temperature? Are the warm whites for LED and CFL the same? Or is LED nicer?

Also, how do I determine what lumen or watt to select?

Watt is the rate of energy consumption. In the pre-LED days, incandescent lamps do not normally provide the lumens value and generally, you can say that a higher wattage bulb is brighter (has more lumens) than one with a lower wattage bulb. But you don't normally hear of lumen/watt for incandescent.

You can think of lumen as a measure of the visible light output.

So, when LED got popular, the manufacturer normally cross reference the watt for LED to that of watt for incandescent for example. They don't normally cross reference LED lumens to incandescent lumens. We can relate the cross reference of LED wattage to incandescent wattage and instantly realize the power savings and it is assumed that in such cross reference, the light output should be comparable though I personally have not verified it. But to be precise, a better way to compare would be lumens per watt.

Now having said that, it's not as if you have a lot of choice. Take my case for example. The highest wattage for my E14 philips LED bulb was 3watt. What I wanted was more like 7watt but as of 6 months ago, I still cannot find anything higher than 3W LED for E14. So, it doesn't matter whether I am looking for lumens or watt. It's just not available. Even 3 LEDs in the light fixture could barely light up my dining area.

From a practical standpoint, without getting all tangled up, decide what wattage you want first for either incandescent or fluorescent. Then if you decide to use LED, just use the conventional watts cross reference provided by manufacturer as a guide and if price is not an issue, choose a higher wattage or lumens value as subjectively, LED tends to appear dimmer, at least for me.

As for temperature colour, for me, neither warm white LED nor warm white fluorescent can compare with incandescent. The colour output of incandescent is just so beautiful. LED is the worst; at least for the 3W warm white LED that I have. Another limitation of warm white LED is that the lumens value is lower than that of LED daylight so if you choose warm white LED, you will have another problem to deal with. Philips has high CRI LED but even so, it still is no where close to incandescent.

So finally in my case, I have fluorescent, LED and incandescent in my home. For practical reasons, I don't use incandescent a lot.

Disclaimer: I do not have a lighting background. Someone more knowledgeable might be able to explain better.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Pelect