gkbt

Hi Marcusseet, Seems to me the system is very much like a water purifier against other market players. Sediment filter, pre carbon, hollow fiber, post carbon & alkaline filter. My take is its great for sediment, and microbes removal. Furthermore the removal of chemical are pretty standard while the alkaline filter is quite standard in this range water filters. Do check on cost of replacements, as the initial price is much cheaper than those of 3M, Hyflux Alkaline series. Cheers!

That's good to hear Sarah833! Hope you'll enjoy the filtered water! Cheers!

Hi Ramster, Thanks for your reply. I would think that Ultrastream is indeed a new boy on the block to be noticed. How it markets would solely be up to the company's direction though it is indeed an uphill battle in an already saturated filter market, but I would consider it when I'm looking for a replacement to my aging water ionizer in the future. However if you intend to market it here, do use proper channels and not this thread no matter how "great" the product is. Best of luck! Cheers

Hi Ramster, Thanks for your reply, below are some points to think about minus pictures of quote. 1) Iodine turning colourless, below is an explaination on how Iodine reacts with OH- in the alkaline water. Similar to the experiments of adding iodine to starch or bleach for colour changes. What I want to point out is that ORP is greatly affected by pH and not a good indicator. Actual H2 levels should be measured as the antioxidant in alkaline water is H2. ORP is simply a proxy for H2 and it is not a good proxy. Back to basis on ORP https://www.yokogawa.com/library/resources/white-papers/basics-of-orp/ On the contrary ORP is not just greatly affected by pH it is also affected by oxidization and reducing properties. This is a reason why some companies provide a pH compensated ORP device that measure rH or a.ka. relative hydrogen score. 2) Microclustering, yes in the past, Alkaway used to advertise microclustering as well, but when Ian learned about microclustering as a myth, he has explained about it on his website here and no longer promote microclustering. In fact, he has been educating consumers on why microclustering is a myth for a while. I am happy to take a look at the studies you are going to show me. However, I hope you can look at the articles explaining why microclustering is a myth below. There are four parts to the article and I have posted the first. http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/microclustering-the-making-of-a-myth-part-1-facts-claims-and-history/ I have indeed gone through the arguments laid out. However that being said, I do not believe because the current science / theory is not sound therefore it is not usable. The fact that water exist in many forms shows its abilities to consistently baffle us. Take for example that a slightly heavier hydrogen atom would change what we deem as normal water to heavy water (think nuclear test.... however some people are saying this could be the elixir of life due to its hydrogen) Under ionization, water is indeed imparted with electrons which normal water do not have. This is already being studied theoretically. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23609128. Therefore the jury is still out as science is always constantly evolving, what we may know works but exactly how it occurs may require some time for evidence to show how it works eventually. 3) Dissolved hydrogen levels, no worries about that the ppm and ppb, we are all learning more about it here. I haven't got to test out the system you mentioned yet, and may I know which ionizer you are using? You said the same method that Ian uses, can you be more specific about the method as there are a 2 main methods of testing H2 levels. This was using the same H2 meter that Ian was using. If you go through the thread you would know what water ionizers I'm using, I believe Ian was marketing at one time as well. Drops works as well but meter tend to most of the talking. I believe Ian was using Trustlex, ENH-1000 with Japanese words which is similar.Regarding the magnesium being used on a daily basis, the Ultrastream uses a slow release magnesium which is designed to last a year. After a year, the replacement cartridge will be replaced where a new media for producing H2 will be present. Thus, at each filter replacement, the machine would be like brand new. In short it might dip over the year but it is replaced annually, but the plates in electronic ionizers are not replaced and can only be cleaned. However, cleaning depends on the user and results may vary.About the use after a year, the difficulty is that every user is different and to conduct such test will be difficult. I haven't heard of any ionizers that shows its levels of dissolved hydrogen after a year. For my own filter, I still had 0.5ppm when I measured it casually using the H2 drops before I replaced my filter. Note that measuring with H2 drops is a delicate process since H2 escapes very easily and will affect the final result. I am not sure what kind of slow release magnesium material, maybe if you could enlighten me on this. Generally speaking, leeching of Magnesium is based on the actual amount of magnesium in the filter cartridge - the amount measure when a cup is drawn out (which is the data you would have). Divided it on the volume of water use and you should arrive to your answer abit crudely since we have not factored osmosis / water pressure etc. BTW the pictures shows Kangen plates being in a sorry state. However if you (being a Kangen user) have taken it directly from the site, you would know that the pictures tells Kangen users that IF they do not wash their plates after are producing Super oxide water this would result to plate disintegration. Its really not truely calcification perse. I do however agree that calcification do occur if maintenance is not done correctly. This calcification does not occur overnight or over a year (since you rightly pointed out the Singapore's water low TDS does not give evidence to calcification you so vehemently pointed out) but over a prolong period of time. Regarding testing in Singapore vs Australia, I agree that source water may be different. However, both water quality standards in Singapore and Australia is high and we already have a relative high standard of water. The comparison I can find for the two is https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Singapore&city1=Singapore&country2=Australia&city2=Sydney, which shows that our water quality is quite similar. PUB does publish reports on Singapore water quality but I can't find similar reports in Australia. Would appreciate if you can show me that Australia water differs significantly from Singapore. Unfortunately just a website that states similarity of Singapore vs Sydney water quality. Simply put the water collection process differs greatly between country to country. Furthermore its contaminants differ greatly as well (think lifestocks / Agri farming etc) Since we are staying in Singapore and we have data on Singapore's water, it would be right to ask for data after its been improved via Ultrastream. I do believe Ian should provide you with Australia water data and not just simply lump Singapore and Australia conveniently together. I would also like to note that the aim of such reports is to show the safety and reliability of the filter at the end of its life, which is something most filters and ionizers did not conduct or publish. Alkaway is already setting up a high standard even if it is only tested in Australia and I do hope all water filters/ionizers can follow as well. Ideally, testing for every country and every substance would be the best, but not very practical especially when most countries are following similar water guidelines set by WHO. Also note that during the testing, highly contaminated water is used and it is still able to be filtered to meet compliant concentrations at the end of the filter life. Honestly we should not even begin to compare WHO water standards... the standard which was published in 2006 served to provide the MINIMUM quality needed to be passed drinkable. (think 3rd world countries) Testing done by professional labs would have taken all precautions to ensure those contaminants do not leak out into the water recycling process Source water usually vary in terms of TDS (Total dissolved solid) or the amount of minerals, salts and metals in the water. Singapore have low TDS or soft water, which is why electrolysis machines works better in US (High TDS hard water) compared to Singapore. This is why I use UltraStream as a natural ionizer does not depend on the source water to produce dissolved hydrogen which electric ionizers depends heavily on it. Regarding bacteria, there is already chlorine and chloramine in our tap water for it. On top of that, UltraStream uses KDF filter which removes bacteria too. KDF filters can last up to 6 years which is more than sufficient for our 1 year usage. Chlorine and Chloramine concentration in Singapore water does not kill bateria. If the concentration was that high, you would essentially be drinking swimming pool water and it taste horrible. It would be good to know if bacteria is truly removed via the KDF filter. Therefore though it may sound impractical, but data of new filter as well as end of life filter using Singapore water would be much appreciated to proof beyond just talk that it works. After all we talk scientific studies which are evidence base (or the lack of it) but when it comes to testing on site, it becomes impractical, vague and lets use previous data? Surely if you intend to market Ultrastream here in Singapore then investment is needed. No? Cheers

Hi Ramster, Thanks for your contribution. However I do not agree with a few things. 1) -ve ORP does not readily mean antioxidant, however in the case of water ionizers, they definitely are able to reduce oxidant substances in the case of iodine being reduced (kangen which you were using before and other water ionizers sellers perform) This proofs that the water from ionizers are antioxidant in nature and are active scavengers not "just potential". 2) Microclustering is real and achievable via ionization. There are scientific journals available, do let me know if you need them. In fact the Ultrastream you are promoting does indicate microclustering and softening qualities as one of its abilities. Since water bonds are covalent and electrical in nature they require an opposite electrical force to break them apart which ionizers can do easily. I guessing magnet for ultrastream since I've seen magnetic resonance being used to break up water clusters. 3) Dissolved Hydrogen is definitely the next buzz word. I've check with my water ionizer supplier, their next generation systems achieve 1600 ppb, if I'm correct it would translate to 1.6 ppm. Tester used was similar to Ian's. My 7 year old water ionizer still gets me 889 ppb. Seems good in my opinion. Apologies for being misinformed since I'm just a educated curious user not an expert. I do believe the concentration strength of dissolved hydrogen is based on ionization (of course the caveat would depend on what type of water ionizers u are using), using magnesium to achieve the release of dissolve hydrogen will only lead to an eventual untherapeutic H2 concentration due to the fact magnesium is leeched out as the filter is being used on a daily basis. Again when will this happens is anyone's guess as there is no data even from alkaways Australia. I do believe that there are many differing benefits of water ionizers compared to water alkalizers but its up to users to see the pros and cons and choose for themselves. I've seen data from Alkaways conducted in Australia, since source water is extremely different region to region, I hope to see those test being done here, including bacteria and dissolved H2 when new and after 3600L as advertised. Cheers

Dear Ramster, Thanks for adding information to this forum and I can't say it better than someone else reinforcing that drinking the type of water is very important for overall health. However my concerns are more on your introduction of products that are not requested by any forumer which constitute to "marketing" Though most of your articles are right up the alley, some do raise an eye brown or two which I will have to clarify. Water ionizers are that produces ORP will inevitably produce active Hydrogen, the more -ve the ORP the more concentrated the active hydrogen. It is the only technology that is capable of producing instant high active hydrogen without input of minerals such as magnesium used by non ionizer systems which will ultimately needs soaking time to reach a therapeutic concentration. BTW active hydrogen is measured in PPB not PPM and water ionizers I know can go up to 5 ppb or higher. I do understand that calcification do appear from time to time affecting possible active hydrogen concentration, but this is applicable in hard water areas experience in other countries, Singapore water is considered soft and will not cause calcification unless the user does not allow the system to maintain itself. Water ionizers do produce acidic water, but the volume is extremely manageable, this water can be use of everything external, including washing laundry. Ratios are around 70:30 to worst case 50:50. Even at 50:50 say a family of 4 drinking their max water consumption plus cooking will give u say 10L - 15L of acidic water. Its not that useful for mopping much less laundry...... you just have to recalibrate habits. btw acidic water does not breed mosquitos As for filtration, most water ionizers will have standard filters that will remove the standard harmful chemicals / heavy metals etc, some are much stronger and removed dissolved heavy metals - (though Singapore water does not have them.) Lastly do send my greetings to Ian for me. Cheers

Hi Papala, It really depends on what you are looking for. Hyflux and espring are water filters by nature so I'm assuming you are looking for filtration. There is a lady facing issues about hyflux undersink and I never liked MLM companies with overpriced products (espring) So here is my take, find a system that suit 1) your budget (Including replacement filters on a regular basis) 2) has 0.01M filtration to remove the smallest bacteria 3) has filtration material that removes fluoride, chloramine and other contaminants etc Cheers!

Hi Sarah, Moving the filter above the sink can be done and excuses due to water pressure is purely passing the buck. If I'm not wrong, the water tubes are the 3mm kind and you only need a longer one to put it above the sink. The problem would then be how to connect it back down and into the faucet....(if this was the setup) Cheers

HI Sarah, Engine oil will not be able to cross contaminate the water filter system, that being said, fumes will have a certain impact to the filter. My guess is the filter could in theory be changed more frequently without your friend knowledge. Design issues could be part of the issue (which allows more air circulation in the system) but that could have never been discovered until someones reports it. That being said Hyflux core business is NOT from water filters systems. I dare say only 1% of their entire sales belong to this sector. Consider the customer support you received above average, I've heard of worse experiences. So I would recommend to post advisory here in the forum (like in the water filter thread) where some potential customers may visit. It might be better this way. Cheers!

Hi Sarah833, Thanks for inviting me to give my 2 cents view. Airtight = waterproof However waterproof ≠ Airtight So Air can actually affect the taste of the water, and to be honest Carbon filter makes a GREAT material to absorb odor, taste etc. What you should do if you like to keep the filter undersink is to avoid storing too much heavy odor materials together with the filter system. Furthermore do not spray insecticide and close the cupboard to concentrate the smell as it will only be "forced" into the carbon filter. You could also change the filter more regularly instead of the 12 - 18 mths recommendation. Alternatively u could consider making the water filter system airtight, which does not make monetary nor logical sense, so your best compromise is what I've written above. P.S a better filtration technology might lengthen the filter change period. I've always recommended a 0.01M filtration capability though that maybe a tall order based on your current situation. Cheers!

Dear Dianna, There are alot of reading resources here which water filters are discussed. Do let me know if you have further queries. As I'm not a supplier but a consumer like everyone else except I am passionate about water and health. Cheers!

Hi Aloha, Kangen is not an alkaline water filter... its a water ionizer. That being said, Kangen cost many times more than an average equally capable water ionizer as its run by MLM. I've visited the above website... there is no brand no model number no nothing... just basic information and a call to action.... seems "interesting" to me why say Kangen and not show anything about Kangen... Cheers

Deleted, double post, sorry about that

Hi Prosumer, it really depends on what u deem alkaline water. If u are saying add some calcium carbonate or other alkalizing materials into the water, then you are correct. This type of water is called alkalized water. However not all alkaline water are "produced" this way. Ionized alkaline water is made through filtration of water, (which removes bacteria / virus / chemicals / debris etc. after which it's produced via electrical current that seperated the alkaline minerals ions from the acidic minerals ions. This is the true ionized alkaline water that the Japanese have been using for decades (coming to half a century) that's is documented and medically certified to help in certain conditions of the body. As for the acidic water, kindly see the above, cheers

Hi Wirriam, acidic ic weather is part of water itself. Since you have split up the water, it will have to produce both types of water, namely alkaline and acidic water. benefits of both types of water are there. Alkaline water namely for consumption while acidic water mainly for external. It's true if u dun store up the acidic water u will be wasting it. But the % is roughly 30-40% of the volume processed. So it's not that much. Also u tend to be using a lot more of acidic water than alkaline. There are many uses of acidic water that requires huge volumes, think disinfecting, cleaning, rinsing etc... So your daily 5-6L of acidic water is not going to do much anyway. Sorry to hear u didn't managed to get a demo after going all the way there Kemp tends to be busy as they are the longest serving company in this specialized area, but if you want I can pm u with someone directly and u can request for a demo again from him.. cheers!

Hi Tiler Seng, Thanks for your reply I would really be worried if traditional method still caused seepage since its been around for decades and skill sets should be already honed to perfection! I don't think that its not "recognized" by HDB if not they wouldn't be talking about it to my mom. According to my research, pointing to the todayonline dated nov 2012 " HDB tests new waterproofing method for ceiling leaks" Its only 4 years but I do believe they have seen enough to warrant different options for homeowners to decide rather than the "same old same old". My mom did not use prima seal, and if I'm not wrong, there are many other nano water proofing solutions available right now. So its probably wise to explore this area, who knows maybe it'll give your company an additional source of revenue (The I don't want hassle type of clients lol) The GRA was approved in 2001 and there's not much changes to the bill since then. I believe the reason why they are exploring new methods is that building and construction are updating consistently, there must be newer methods which are faster and more efficient. Of course there is a caveat - it may not work all the time, which than same can be said to traditional methods who employ less than satisfactory workers or materials. But if u asked me apart from cost, 3 days of work on a toilet compared to merely hours.... is something really tempting. Cheers!

Hi Tiler Seng, If I remember correctly what my mom said was the HDB / town council guy spoke to the neighbour downstairs before coming up to explain that my mom's toliet needed to be rectify. He showed her the traditional method of hacking and also other methods including the nano water soluable solution. If it was not approved, I would say he was doing a good job in conning my mom. My mom like the fuss free solution more obviously. After she decided on the nano technology, the specialized contractor and his principal came and explained to her about the benefits and showed her town council letter of endorsement of the technology. Work done was about 2 or 3 hours, I was there for a visit when they came..... I had my skepticism but that nano waterproofing solution stopped the seepage problem, neighbour did not complain further. The only downside was my mom paid the full amount instead of sharing 50:50 cost like the traditional method of hacking. Its been a while now since the application, still all good... Not sure the product name though.... Cheers

Hi Originalbread Yes, my mom's place used a water soluble nano technology to cover possible areas of seepage. This save her a major hassle to hack up the flooring and redo the whole toilet even though such repair works are subsidized by HDB. So far its been almost a year and no complaints by her downstairs neighbour. This method is already approved by HDB, but not sure if the technology you are talking about is the same.

Hi Wirriam, Frequency is roughly 6000L or 1 year based on what was advised. It's like servicing your car etc... to save my bucks.... I would go for 6000L (which the system will actually prompt you) You can change it yourself, but you don't need to sweat a muscle... its free delivery and changing... just need to order and buy the filter. Changing for filters depend on what system you are using... my old Jupiter Delphi filter cost roughly $150... The newer Smart I models are slightly more exp... there is a new material in there called KDF which bumped up the price) Hope the above helps! Cheers!

Dear Kelleigh, Its interesting that you just "learned" that drinking alkaline water is not very good. I would assume you are using the Espring system since you are talking about them. Putting things in perspective, if everything is balanced in our diet and lifestyle.. then yes even water should be pH neutral. However since we all know that its NOT the case, then consciously looking for something better will always be our focus in life. To beat aging, to prevent / delay chronic illness and ultimately trying to beat the cycle of life especially end of life. NSF is one of the certifying bodies for water purification is USA, its only right that Espring being from US should be certified with those standards. I cant say much for the D* brand but I do think there are many other certifying bodies (different countries) around the world especially if those brands are mainly sold in those countries. Cheers. Its finally good to be BACK!

Hi Harmiles69, Sry for the late reply... its still a busy week for me... The TK-7585 is probably the closest to the Mavello (5 plate Vs 5 plates) However the plates are of different types (TK-7585 Solid plates Vs Mavello Mx Mesh plates) If I can recall proper... the older Mavello were using solid plates which was Maximum around - 450 mV pH around 9.5 - 10 so I think this can be said for the TK-7585 too (ball park figure since there is no actual data to suggest nor personnel to verify this with). As for the TKA40, it has 3 plates which probably be around -250mV. (Estimated since the Japanese started promoting water ionizers in the 1970s, they advocated to drink at least - 250 mV in antioxidant value and pH max at 9) Hope it helps

Dear Harmiles, Nice to know that you are reading up on alkaline water ionizers. The Mavello and other alkaline water ionizer systems from Kemp do not indicate ORP values. The simple reason is that ORP fluctuates all the time as the quality of the water in our taps changes as well. What I have come across with my personal ORP meter was anywhere from -450 to -750 mV for the Mavello at the highest level. This was a while back and I have not measured since. If you have any doubt, do feel free to ask for an orp test on the mavello at your place. What the Ministry of Health and Welfare in Japan says is the anything that has -250 mV is considered beneficial to the human body... The links I have shared on this thread should be a good reference point. Hope that helps! Cheers!

Hi Grateful, Welcome to the ionizer family! lol 1) Generally nowadays 7 plates are the "standard" compared to the 5 plates which are the norm for a few decades. I would say go for the 7 if your budget permits. 2) Generally glass bottles are the best.. but as we all know glass is the most dangerous esp for younger kids... so plastic would be the next better vessel. Metal containers are good but they tend to attract minerals from alkaline water way to fast (you would start to see or feel some minerals buildup almost within a few days.) The other containers will attract but at a slower pace.. Try keeping some critic acid powder to remove minerals if needed. There is no impact of leeching of plastics residues from water ionizers so far (almost 100 yrs since the beginning) I can for sure tell you that alkaline water will not deteriorate if its kept in any bottle without exposure to the air (opening the bottle to drink is an example) therefore a 8-9 hours with some exposure is fine. The antioxidants are available when its fresh and will get neutralized faster than the alkalinity but again 8-9 hrs is fine 3) I would recommend MAX level for them.. The higher the alkaline level the better the neutralization of acidic buildup (though this is at a small scale but every bit helps) The higher the level will also provide higher antioxidants and hydrogen which are used to prevent oxidization from free radicals. Hope that helps! gkbt

Hi SkimMilk, Apologies for the late late reply.... looking after my new born so cant really spend time on forums already.... The technology involves the separation of minerals into alkaline and acidic. Thus you get alkaline water and acidic water. The system is linked to a water supply either a tap or connected to your pipe. The benefits are both essential alkaline minerals (in ionic form) and antioxidants (vis OH- and hydrogen). There is alot of conversation about this kind of system and there are both proponents and opponents. On a scientific note, it works, on a personal note, my family is doing well so yeah.. Water ionizers are getting extremely competitive (like for like) and there are alot of alkalizers like the above. Kemp is the pioneering company that supplies such water ionizers and should be mile ahead from the rest... price wise ranges from the affordable to the expensive.. but that's really up the the consumer. Cheers!