gkbt

Hi thesmarts, I don’t think saying which is better is ethical. But I will put them side by side and you can decide yourself which is better. If you have read my posting you would know which system I am using, but most people would know when I post something its objective and questions asked will be same as what another consumer will ask as well. 1) Jupiter Athena, By Kemp Trading 5 plate mesh technology. Twin filter technology (standard and 0.01M filtration) Cost of filters $130 and $150 Filtration capacity 6000L Cost of system $2388 exclude gst Company 24 years in Singapore currently Local awards and local certs Factory 35 years history in Korea with no. 1 market share in Korea (statistics from KFDA) International awards and certs 2)Samusung Vesta By Kemp Trading 7 or 9 plate technology Twin filter technology (standard and 0.01M filtration) Cost of filters $130 and $150 Filtration capacity 6000L Cost of system $2500 (7 plate) / $2888(9 plate) exclude gst Company 24 years in Singapore currently Local awards local certs Factory 35 years history in Korea with no. 1 market share in Korea (statistics from KFDA) International awards and certs 3)KYK 30000 By H20Lifesource There is no 3000 but rather 30000. Below is the spec I have gathered from the web. Another note is that the 30000 is being superseded by the Gen II system in the international market. Any discrepancy please check with Mr. Wong. 7 plate system Twin filter technology (2 standard filtration 0.1M) Cost filter approx $145 per filter Filter capacity 6000L and 9000L Cost of system $2899 exclude gst Company about 4 years plus in Singapore local certs Factory 8 year history in Korea, Korea No. 1 as advertised by H20lifesource (Have not seen any data backing it though) International awards and certs 4)Tyent 9090 turbo (Also known as watersource system here in Singapore) By Evergreen Stationary's subsidiary watersource 9 plate system Twin filter technology (2 standard filtration 0.1M) Cost $250 self collect Filter capacity 6000L Cost of system $2888 gst waived Company about 3 years in Singapore Subsidiary Local awards and local and certs Company 17 years history in Korea (advertised as best seller in USA not sure about data though) International awards and certs This is as unbiased as I can get. Do look into the website and visit the stores to understand them better, the more you know the better your final choice. Cheers!

Hi Dash2627 Elken is indeed a MLM company based in Malaysia, their systems are basically R.O (reverse osmosis) From your shortlist, this question is not at all quick lol... I have done some read up and here is my take on both brands 1. Puricare They offer a wide range of water treatment products. There are a few Hot / Cold models (assuming you are interested in table top units only) such as WPU-8201C, pc-868, FW-520S and HF-7000. Of these units go for the ultra fine filtration which should be at 0.01M (FW-520 or pc-868) 2. Novita There is only one tabletop from the website NP-9912, they use a 0.01M filtration with UV as well. I personally do not think alkalinity should be involved in such a system and there are a few reasons 1. Its not giving you ionized minerals which mean your body need to do more work. 2. There will not be much anti-oxidant or microclusters compared to an ionizer system. 3. the cost of replacement of such filters will be very costly as well. As such I would recommend you look closer at puricare ultrafine hot / cold systems such as the (FW-520 or PC-868). The cost of the system + electricity will be a factor as well to decide. Just a query, why do you need hot / cold water instantly? Cheers

Hi Janice, If you are looking for more quotes. call Raymond at 90226071. (I was introduced by my ID and his work as well as his staff is pretty good). Pricewise is very competitive thats why I choose him even my FIL contractor contact lost out in terms of price. Just sharing.... Cheers!

Hi keepsimple, Cleansui is supplied by btbtrading. You can try contacting them at 9125 1984. Goobi had an under sink system from them so that's where the number came from. I am not sure if the adaptor will work cos what I am suspecting is that your tap head is not of a standard size leading to the problem. The top pic looks like a washing machine joint like mine. Cheers!

Actually you should try to analyse whay they will nag. When I did that analysis, its probably that they wanted to talk to someone, anyone. Someone who can or should I say have to hear their opinion. So sometimes the buck stops with you. I got my fair share when we were still without children... but the best way is that to get your other half to tell their own parents about it such as my hubby / wife is not much of a talker... dun like to hear nagging etc... this will help in a long way My in laws basically know about my character... not much of a talker... a typical 1 - 2 sentence man.. so they nag my wife who is used to it. Moreover I am nag innoculated by my own parents as well... lol so I have developed immunity after so many immunizations...

There is one in United Square... Pretty nice and durable, cant recall the name of the showroom but its on the 2nd floor. I think its expensive but it can combine sleep, study and play altogether... Something I will get when my kids outgrow their current beds.

Hi Dragonnite, Mavello is pretty decent due to its long history, it's latest upgrade was the mesh technology, but what drew me to Jupiter was the technology that made it high tech. Replacements are same throughout. Price differences are $200 not 100. My suggestion is to request them to bring both... Info sent to you already... Reason why I dun want to post it here is because it will most certainly lead to a backlash when results are not what they like hear. Cheers.

Hi dragonnite, Apologies for totally forgetting your queries, Below are your answers as requested. 1) My parents are using the Mavello system, picture wise I guess you would need to go down to see it 1st hand 2) The acidic discharge goes to a container which depends on your choice of preference. My parents had them collected below the sink while my inlaws have them collected beside the system. 3) Generally under sinks are rare to come by and therefore extremely expensive. The looks department are a plus but is it really necessary? Only you will know, I got mine under sink because of space issue at the top. 4) Mavello is a model while Jupiter is a brand with 13 different models including Mavello produced by Emco Tech Co Ltd http://www.royalwater.com/main.htm which has one of the longest history in water ionizer manufacturing. (over 40 years old with 30 years plus in water ionizer production) technology are incorporated in different system as as such the price would vary. Venus boast of a high tech look but with solid plate. The Mavello have since been upgraded to mesh electrodes that are used in upper end systems. The Mavello is a product from Japan clearly stated in my parents system as well as my inlaws machines. But since it's inside emco tech website then they must have done some streamlining of sorts in the Japanese factory and Korean factories. filter wise they are the same. As I am a user of the Jupiter system, I can only advice you thus far, as you would rightly pointed out eventually everyone will make a informed decision and not be swayed by sales pitches. I would suggest that you head down and hear it from them directly. The more you search online the more confusion you might be due to lots of "reviews" that are actually not reviews. In fact there are tonnes of them out there including Jupiter, unfortunately no ones escapes such "reviews" I have however came across 1 that is super fair in its appraisal on most brands available in the US market trust me, even the new vesta by emco tech / samsung took some flak. Why? Because she shows you her video on the testing of the various brands than just mere talk. Even though the test are home based, it's a correct assesment. This lady take things pretty serious and is super active in her blog. Do drop me a note if you need that info, no point posting something and getting flamed. Cheers!

My my my my.... What a few weeks of inactivity makes, Either I am doing something right or something wrong to warrant such attention. All the post so far I have made are directly helping forum people select a good water filter system or water ionizer. When I raise doubts about some companies, it is genuinely to help both consumer and seller to 1) Do more research work online so as to make an informed decision 2) Provide detail information that's lacking - Customer has EVERY right to know before buying.... I am 1st a user of water ionizers and what I shared are based on my experiences with such a system as well as knowledge from my education and work in the life sciences industry. Based on the time I joined renotalk forum until now, it's been 4 years. During this time I got married, had my beautiful kids, shifted my home and changed my job. But what has not changed is the quest for buying things with FULL disclosure so we fellow forumers will never be short changed by ANY PROVIDER and this is what renotalk is all about. Iike a lot of members here in the forum, we do not reveal our true identity as we value privacy. But one thing is for certain, I AM NO WAY RELATED TO THE OWNER and I do not attack other peoples product. Now with that aside, let's welcome Mr. Kenneth Wong to the forum and if there are queries on His water ionizer please feel free to ask away, cos I am not the "expert" of his product. Hopefully he is here to stay and shed light on water ionizers as well rather than just flaming me. Btw thanks dragonnite n taichipanda for the moral fairness in your postings.... Now if admin can do something about those postings..... HAPPY NATIONAL DAY!

Have a look at these websites from overseas on the Vesta. http://www.ionways.com/products_vesta.aspx Below is distributor in the US who I believe is neutral on the comparison of other brands unless its really really bad. I have been visitng her site for a while now and I find her topics very interesting and full of info for the average person. http://alkalinewaterplus.info/blog/tag/samsung-vesta/ Cheers!

Hi Ncheewee, Nice that you are considering the Delphi system. To be honest there are pros and cons for every ionizer, so the things going for the delphi are pretty amazing while the cons are also due to the valves that create those amazing features. I guess this is what technology is all about, which have a slighltly higher maintenance cost compared to those older less technology systems thus = lesser maintenance. About those horror stories... I do give them a pinch of salt especially if you are having the delphi... both water points (alkaline and acid) should be entering the sink so there should not be any "opps". But based on your comments on having it at the beverage counter, to be on the super safe side... switch off the power at night to make sure there is no leakage. Cheers!

Hi Darcy, As much as I value medical professional comments, their views cannot be taken as "be all ends all" statement. One must understand and question the practice of medicine that is not wholly on just the germ theory, rather please take some time to digest what the Father of modern medicine mentions: “Let thy food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food.”--Hippocrates (460-377 B.C.). This is where the Hippocratic Oath is birth from which all medical professional swears an oath to. However medical professional nowadays think that food as medicine are not effective compared to synthetic medications and neglect the healing ability of the human body. This is not only wrong but also against which Hippocrates stood and believed. Yes drugs were use from time to time, but surely not ALL the time?? Coming back to your question, you have read previously on what i have mentioned that japan and Korea are actually classifying this type of technology as a medical system and is use for certain treatments there. If the alkaline water is affecting the acidity of the stomach that aids digestion then why consider it to be a medical device and use as a prescription in Japan and Korea? Alkaline ionized water works in an interesting way of helping the body balance itself, it is true that the stomach needs to be acidic to breakdown food to facilitate the absorption of nutrients later in the intestines, but one must consider how and what we eat. If we are constantly keeping a acidic diet, then the stomach will be too lazy to produce enough acid to fully breakdown food. This will lead to indigestion. Alkaline ionized water on the other hand help encourage production of acid to a acceptable level for the purpose of breaking down food substances. Therefore a glass of alkaline ionized water 30 mins before meals help get the stomach ready for its duty. Alkaline ionized water like Mavello are 100% natural and not chemical based like medications yet they are not accepted while medicinal drugs are encouraged, surely this is quite strange. I am quite sure that I am not alone in seeing the benefits of alkaline ionized water and therefore this is not pseudo science, snake oil etc, neither its a placebo result. Sorry if I sounded too chim... cheers

Water ionizer systems are classified as medical devices in both Japan and Korea since 1965 / 1970, they are meant to treat certain conditions of the body such as gastric, acid reflux, constipation etc. As for the other claims, please take it with some pinch of salt. Based on scientific theories it is possible, however traslating to the physiological aspect of the human body will depend on the individual rather than the system. There are various factors that affect the overall results and most of them are under human control such as lifestyle, diet and environment. Water is extremely integral for the human body, fact of the matter is we tend not to drink enough. Based on researchers indications, we should be dinking roungly min 1.5L - 3.0L (based on adult and weight) When we do not drink enough, alot of body functions are compromised especially the detoxification of acidic buildup in the body. Do not be mistaken, the human body can remove acidic waste by itself, however its the aging effect and stress loading of the above 3 factors that causes eventual health issues. If acidic buildup is not remove, it will cause extensive damage to the body. Conditions such as obesity is not bad to the body perse but I acts like a storage for acid to protect other more valuable organs (machinery)from getting overwelmed with acdic buildup. (Simply think your body is a factory and the waste produced by the factory needs to be discarted, however because the waste removal company are on stike, you cant get rid of the factory waste as as such have to hide it somewhere. Too much of this will eventually cause issues to the whole factory leading to total shutdown.) You won't see much benefits immediately unless you have gastric issues etc that this system is used as a treatment for. For others, think in months and possibility years. Remember a patient experiencing degenerative condiditons didn't get it yesterday, likewise drinking alklaine ionized water wont clear up by tomorrow even if you change your lifestyle. My own family experienced benefits such as stronger immunity, gastic and indigestion issues are gone years ago (been drinking this since my mom bought it for her gastric condition) Cheers!

To cover the hole, I think you can find Kemp Trading and ask them, look for anyone there and tell them your problem, they might have some ideas. Cheers!

Hi Beluga, I have seen the pictures and I don't think there is much of a possibility to use the 2cm hole. Simple reason is beacause the R.O system (think its Elken you mentioned) needs fresh water to be forced into a pressured chamber to filter out everything. This will then need a reservior to collect the slow trickling R.O water. As such you cannot use a 2cm tap and it turn on to collected R.O water. Furthermore the tubings are too thin to cover the 2cm gap. They should be 8mm in size each and as such cannot be sealed properly. As such there can be only 2 options I can think of here: option 1: Seal up the hole with a capping and redo another hole to fit the 8mm tubes to as to use the system that was given to you. option 2: dump the current system you have and use another than ultilize a 2cm hole (a tap maybe to dispense water or redirect water to a system.) Sorry for the not so good options, but that is what is available to you now. cheers.

Based on the description of the 3 filters in the system, none of them fits the 0.01M I set as a filtration standard, the smallest should be a 0.1M carbon filter. Moreover you need to wash the ceremic filter (0.2M) which honestly is a bygone era of filtration technology. Saw it being markets in Metro recently... not so impressive except of the stainless steel concept. Sorry about it.

0.01m is a good size, however the removal of bacteria does not mean the rest of the chemical, heavy metal etc are removed... Thats why filters attached to the taps are the least what should be done but not what I would recommend to anyone unless there are certain constraints to work around etc rootz dislikes large filters....

Hi Beluga, Interesting that the Elken ppl do not have those parts which I seriously doubt so. It seems their after sales service is not their forte like all MLM companies. The only people I know that have similar parts are either Diamond or Kemp but I dont think they will do that kind of installation for another brand of system. I still think drinking R.O water is not healthy for the family and you need to resupplement with minerals and vitamins as R.O or distilled water removes beneficial components from the body causing the body to be weak and prone to sickness but that just me thinking out loud. Recently there are loads of alkaline water ionizers players entering the Singapore market and the latest is a MLM water ionizer system going for a ridiculous price of above $5k. I makes my ionizer system look extremely good bargain . But I guess that speaks volumes to the demand for such systems. Last resort, maybe if you post the pictures here I can see what part you need and see my store room if there are spare. Cheers gkbt

Hi Rootz, Just make sure the the filter is of a 0.01M quality. Other things dont matter expecially if you are extremely concern about size. I wouldn't go for filter alone but thats me, the concern is that you wouldn't know when there is too much bacteria buildup in that tiny filter. Some people think that removing bacteria is good, however not killing them an allow them to live makes your water that you collect loaded with their acidic waste (drinking bacteria poo). I would recommend that you change the tinny filter on the tap half the time as recommended as there is nothing ther to kill bacteria. As for the pitcher... Its not really necessary at all. cheers! gkbt

Hi divineparadise & salormoon80, I believe you guys will find the benefits of water ionziers in your lives. Most importantly you should be need to drink 8 - 12 glasses of water a day. As for my system, I am using the Jupiter Delphi due to space constraints cant seem to post the picture of my system Oh btw, Kemp is having an exhibiton this weekend and their showroom is opened from 10 - 3pm on Sat & Sun. If I am not wrong, Kemp exhibition weekend (which happens once or twice a year) surely will have some interesting promotions, however prices will remain the same as it is their practice to do so even after so many years in business. Cheers! gkbt

Used the mavello b4... No bells n whistles, it just simply gets the job done, the new generation mavello water quality output is similar to the alphion. The Alphion is another matter, its looks are meant for people who appreciate design while the technology inside it is for people who like advance technologies. However advance technologies comes with greater responsibility, you can't treat the alphion like a work horse, it's more delicate compared to the mavello. Hope those 2 cents helps Welcome to the water ionizer family! Cheers!

Sound great.. Mixer tap should be shower head type. So u can reach to the other side when washing stuff.. Cheers

Why not ask them to bring both systems to your place to see how it fits? I think they should be able to do just that. Personally the MOH (minister of home affairs) is the one you should please.... you should know better lol Cheers!

Since I have some time to kill waiting for my wife massage to be done, I have checked the system and its purported ability. All the talk about the benefits below should be addressed by the person who posted it and below are my personal views 1) Alkalinity - This is highly disputed on the range 8 - 10. Generally water with incorporated minerals do not cross the pH 9 mark. Another thing is that the filter AFTER a few months will drop in alkalinity drastically as minerals are leeched out of the filters that provide it to begin with. To test it simply us a pH meter to see if its still alkaline. In experience, nothing more than 6mths to go back to neutral. 2) Antioxidants – Again there is no indication how strong the anti-oxidant the water produced will be. The more -ve the ORP the better. A meter will provide a more accurate result rather than just written words. Again minerals are involved in making the water anti-oxidant but the more its used the lesser its gets. 3) Mineralized with trace minerals people need - we need minerals for bodily functions, however the minerals needs to be ionizer (charged) to be absorbed into the body. A mineral compound needs to be broken down to ions to be absorbed. 4) Smaller molecular clusters for better cell absorption - Here should be said of water clusters not molecules. H20 is H20, however the number of H20 to form a drop of water plays a big deal in how fast the body absorb it. Again this is measurable, but unfortunately it does not indicate. 5) Clean, safe, tasty water – Filters plays a BIG role in filtering unwanted stuff out of the water source. However, its how FINE the filter that will remove how small a particle / bacteria etc. Here I see the smallest particle size filter to be ceramic which is 0.2M (nothing to shout about) Overall with this kind of cost and not to mention the recurring cost to change the 4 filter yearly, I would not think it economically. Its neither an ionizer nor does it have a ultra fine filtration capability, unless you are involve in the MLM business plan. Hope the above helps.

HI, I wont say pro and con.. its not fair to compare like this, moreover I am using Kemptrading's system so could be a wee bit bias. However what I will do is to make it simple to compare to understand it easily. Novita www.novita.com.sg 1) 3 different models pricing from S$2188, $2388 and $2588 (all table top) 2) All systems are 5 plates (all solid - standard technology) 3) filters used are 0.1M OR 0.01M pricing is S$100+ 0.1M and S$200+ (filter life is only 3600L per filter)as mentioned in previous post KempTrading www.kemptrading.com 1) Many models (Vesta range is the latest in the market) Jupiter range is the most popular currently. prices from S$1388 - S$2888 2) They have 5 / 7 / 9 plates (solid and mesh varities - mesh latest technology) 3) Filters pricing are 0.01M S$150. To add, water ioinzers need maintence, so the company u purchase needs to have an established track record. Hope that it helps Cheers!