ossify 1 Report post Posted February 24, 2010 Eh no.. is the washing machine drainage outlet hole pipe, only about 1cm high from the floor, but it is made quite close to the wall. um... possible to take a pic? you can either do re-piping of affected portion, or just don't do skirting for the part that is covered by the pipe. i don't think your pipe is so long right? it'd be ugly. my washing machine drainage outlet hole pipe is placed in my newly constructed wall so it's not visible at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2010 possible to take a pic? you can either do re-piping of affected portion, or just don't do skirting for the part that is covered by the pipe. i don't think your pipe is so long right? it'd be ugly. my washing machine drainage outlet hole pipe is placed in my newly constructed wall so it's not visible at all. Here is the pic. Very close to the wall, dun think can do any skirting there already. How to do re-piping? Have to do hacking work and water-proofing again. Yours is inside the wall? I have it outside because in case there is a choke point somewhere, waste water will start gushing out and i can easily take care of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ossify 1 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 Here is the pic. Very close to the wall, dun think can do any skirting there already. How to do re-piping? Have to do hacking work and water-proofing again. Yours is inside the wall? I have it outside because in case there is a choke point somewhere, waste water will start gushing out and i can easily take care of it. Can do skirting! Tilers should be pro enough to go around the piping. Sorry, in your case, repiping is not cost-effective. Mine looks like this, see the pipe sticking out of the left wall near the windows? that's the w/m outlet pipe My choke point is in my MBR's shower room, on the bottom right side of my shower area as seen in this picture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 Can do skirting! Tilers should be pro enough to go around the piping. Sorry, in your case, repiping is not cost-effective. Mine looks like this, see the pipe sticking out of the left wall near the windows? that's the w/m outlet pipe My choke point is in my MBR's shower room, on the bottom right side of my shower area as seen in this picture Ok, as long as the pipe is not hidden until it is so difficult to clean up if there is a choke. When u say the piping goes around the pipe, it is essentially creating a 'fencing' around the piping? But if there is no wall, how to support the tiles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) This is a write up on my experience with my Contractor on doing up my kitchen cabinet. Can consider it as a case study for anyone who is considering engaging this company to do up their house. This case study would probably shed some light on how the company runs their business. It would be good to read my general review on the company itself before reading this case study. The link to the general review is at the bottom. Personnel involved: Account Manager (AM), Project Manager (PM) and me. Background: The 3D drawing/perspective drawing of the kitchen cabinet was given to me right at the beginning of the renovation work. The end-product of the kitchen cabinet differs from the perspective drawing. Both drawings are shown at the bottom, at the end of this write-up. ------------------------------------------ Conversation btw the AM and me: Me: Why is the kitchen cabinet not done up according to the perspective drawing? AM: The perspective drawing is a 3 door cabinet (for the bottom part). If we were to do according to the perspective drawing, the door width will be too big, out of proportion. The PM has taken initiative to put in another door since the space now can accommodate 4 doors. If not it will look very ugly. Moreover the perspective drawing does not correctly reflect how the actual end-product will look like in most cases because it is only perspective. Me: Yes, I know. The perspective drawing is done up before the renovation starts when actual site measure is not yet taken. So after all the partition walls are up and site measurement taken, you should at least tell me there is surplus space and we can re-work on the design. Don’t you remember I have a tall-unit item quoted in the quotation? You told me that we will look into that when the available space for the kitchen cabinet is confirmed. With surplus space, I can do other additional things like the tall unit or a wider drawer. You should not just slot in an additional door like that. End up some doors are big some doors are small. AM: Actually to be frank this is how we work, if the customer does not voice out any additional request, we will just do. We cannot have the customer to be involved in every steps of work. It will slow down the progress and make things very difficult. Me: If you did not tell me that there is surplus of space after the actual site measurement, how do I know and made additional request. Morover, the tall-unit is already in the quotation, you knew I had requested for this at the beginning, but subjected to space availability, and can only be confirmed after actual site measurement? This is what you advised me at the beginning right? You said that actually site measurement can only be done once the partition wall is up and plastered. Is this the way you or your company work or is it an industry practice? AM: Actually it is an industry practice. Me: How can this be an industry practice? The kitchen cabinet is a very design focused item in renovation. All designs should go through the customer’s approval before work commence. The cabinet should be designed to suit the customer’s lifestyle, not the other way round. Are you sure this is an industry practice? AM: Everywhere is the same. Like I say, the perspective drawing is only perspective, so after the site measurement, things may change, but the end-product should not be a total different design altogether. In your case, the end-product is not too far off from the perspective drawing right? Me: You already said it is a perspective design. Your designer drew the drawing before any site measurement is taken and the design is simply plucked out from thin air because your designer has no idea of the available space for the kitchen cabinet when she did the drawing. After site measurement is done, the measurement should be given to the designer again to see if any change is needed. But now you are bypassing the designer altogether. The designer is useless, she only draw 3D drawing and nothing else. Instead, you let the carpenter take the lead on the design. Even so, whether it is the carpenter or your designer who design it, the design should come to me first for approval or if time is critical and works are rushing, at least tell me verbally that there are surplus of space now and the design could potentially change. But none of you tell me anything. I am still living in the era of a 3 door cabinet because I thought space cannot accommodate an additional tall-unit. If I had known earlier that there is surplus of space, I will have the option to do the tall-unit. It is already inside the quotation. Is this how you all run your business? I am amazed by how you all do things. This is a serious gap in the work process. AM: You see, actually if you report to CASE, we will still win because this is an industry practice. Our company will not go down because of you – one customer. Anyway, tearing down the whole cabinet now is impossible because we need at least 2 weeks to re-do the cabinet. It is a hassle and cause inconvenience to you, imagine you are not able to use the cabinet for 2 weeks plus? Me: I like to know my options. If inconvenience is not an issue to me, can you tear now the cabinet and re-do. Is cost an issue to you? * At this point, the AM said a lot of things which I not quite remember, but he did not say that the cost of re-doing the cabinet will be borne by him or his company. Instead he emphasize on the hassle and inconvenience I will have, if we choose to re-do the cabinet * AM: …… ok I admit that it is the PM’s fault for not informing you on the surplus of space, so you see, the cabinet is already done and it is looking good, so why not just use it, it is really a waste to tear it down. If you complain that the area on the left is too small to put a microwave, maybe I compensate you by doing up another cabinet for you at the opposite site to put your microwave? Or we can also do other things as compensation or give some discount on other items. Me: Building another cabinet is again taking up more space of my kitchen. If I got a choice, I may want to re-do the cabinet. This choice should remain open to me because we encounter inconvenience in using the cabinet. The stove and the sink is a tad too far apart and makes cooking very troublesome. AM: Most people want a big workspace for their cooking and preparing of ingredients. Now the space you have is quite big, isn’t that good? Me: This is very subjective. Everyone has different way of cooking, you can’t assume everyone cooks the same way. If I got a choice, I do not want any form of compensation. I want a good and USABLE (not only FUNCTIONAL) cabinet. This is the main fundamental reason why people custom made their kitchen cabinet isn’t it? AM: Like I say, tearing down the cabinet is not quite possible because …… * and the AM goes on and on, on the hassle and inconvenience of re-doing the kitchen cabinet * AM: ….. I will come down with John (the AM’s boss) to see how we can help you on this. Meanwhile you think over first ok on the compensation? ………… ----------------------------------------------------- Above is a ‘snapshot’ of the actual conversation over the phone. What is written above is NOT a word-for-word of what has been spoken over the phone but the bulk of the contents are already captured. Sometimes, I realize that the AM also do not know his standpoint. At some point of time he seems to agree that his company has to be responsible (although it is the PM’s fault/carelessness/overlook of this matter) but at some points he is arguing that this is the industry practice and he/they/his company is doing the right thing. And when he mentioned they will surely win even if I report to CASE, I am quite angry and disappointed on how this cabinet thing has turned out to be. My viewpoint is that I have the right to ask them to re-do the kitchen cabinet. They have to be responsible for what the PM has done and left behind (although he has since been dismissed from the company). But from the several conversations that I had with the AM, largely, he doesn’t seems to admit that they are at fault and they are trying their best not to re-do the cabinet (maybe it costs more compared to giving me some monetary discount on other items)? My apology if the above is not written in a clear manner but I certainly hope that it helps any souls out there who is looking for Contractor to do their renovation. Kitchen cabinet is one of the big ticket items inside a renovation project and is very design-focused. Once it is screwed up, you may have to live with it for all you know. As usual, for names of PM and AM, kindly send me private message, I will reveal, Thanks. Edited February 25, 2010 by gantan88 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clementi_PR 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 So scary experience. :furious: I hope i will not have this kind of PM. He is really wrong by saying that customer involvement will slow down and make things difficult. Dare him to write this in all quotation he make :dancingqueen: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 So scary experience. :furious: I hope i will not have this kind of PM. He is really wrong by saying that customer involvement will slow down and make things difficult. Dare him to write this in all quotation he make :dancingqueen: I am quite drain out talking to the AM. I am going to talk to his boss. This is my last resort. If not i really suck thumb. I dunno what will happen also if i decide to hold back the last payment. Do you know how to insert post link? (My 2 links inside my signature) I can't seem to get it working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ossify 1 Report post Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Ok, as long as the pipe is not hidden until it is so difficult to clean up if there is a choke. When u say the piping goes around the pipe, it is essentially creating a 'fencing' around the piping? But if there is no wall, how to support the tiles? I meant that you tile between the wall and the pipe. If it's too tight, just use cement btw, since you pay them so much for your reno, i don't think it'll hurt them much to redo it. Edited February 25, 2010 by ossify Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clementi_PR 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2010 I am quite drain out talking to the AM. I am going to talk to his boss. This is my last resort. If not i really suck thumb. I dunno what will happen also if i decide to hold back the last payment. Do you know how to insert post link? (My 2 links inside my signature) I can't seem to get it working. I hope the boss will have a better customer service mind. Good luck bro. For the links, it need more parameter to search the post. example: to link to your tblog post no 713: http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry506774 You might want to go to the post you referring to, and on the right side, there is "post" number, you can click it, and copy the url to be use in your signature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 27, 2010 I meant that you tile between the wall and the pipe. If it's too tight, just use cement btw, since you pay them so much for your reno, i don't think it'll hurt them much to redo it. Ok i get what you mean. It doesn't usually hurt them much. it is just a matter of whether they are willing to do it a not. And it is a huge inconvenience on my side. That's why i said it is a big screw up for my kitchen cabinet. Next time have to be very careful on carpentry work. Lucky i did not do the tv console and shoe rack and wardrobes. I dunno how it will turn out to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted February 27, 2010 I hope the boss will have a better customer service mind. Good luck bro. For the links, it need more parameter to search the post. example: to link to your tblog post no 713: http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry506774 You might want to go to the post you referring to, and on the right side, there is "post" number, you can click it, and copy the url to be use in your signature. Thanks bro, the links work now. I certainly hope John can give me a more satisfactory explanation and resolution. The AM attitude is like trying to defend the whole world when talking to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clementi_PR 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2010 Thanks bro, the links work now. I certainly hope John can give me a more satisfactory explanation and resolution. The AM attitude is like trying to defend the whole world when talking to me. Glad to help you btw: that's my area of work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gantan88 0 Report post Posted March 2, 2010 Glad to help you btw: that's my area of work What do u mean by yr area of work? U r working in this line? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goobii Report post Posted March 2, 2010 Wah ~! totally difference from the drawing leh... this designer or contractor should discuss with you before any confirmation to start work. Did you hold them back for the cheque or u already pay them accordingly. This is totally a big difference btw heaven and **** ... Drawing picture look so much better than a real kitchen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goobii Report post Posted March 2, 2010 I suggest u tell the AM to redesign a proper kitchen cabinet and redo everything. Tear down is very easy, rebuild again is not so you can just tell them to do a proper measurement and send people to build up like lego. Since yours is not like mine THE FLOATING KITCHEN CABINET so I am sure it is much easier to change here and there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
