Erwinong

chling, nice designs there. May I ask if the wardrobe is custom made by your own ID? What brand of glass is your wardrobe door? Thanks for sharing.

Not really. I doubt most home owners will turn on their general lights for so long. Assuming the typical working adult comes home at 7pm, and goes to bed at midnight, that's an average of 5 hours only. You just need a longer time to reap the monetary benefits of lower electrical bills. The benefits of LEDs can be enjoyed by everyone. Of course, if you turn on the lights longer per day (like if you operate a shop fitted with LEDs), you will break even faster on the higher initial cost of buying LEDs.

That's the problem... Cos we are all consumers, not some lighting QC inspectors or electrical engineers doing research. We wouldn't know how well the LEDs were built. I've visited too many shops and they all give different views on LED vs energy saving downlights. About half will say PLC lights are brighter. The others will say LEDs are brighter. And most of them are actually not lying with the lights there to prove. For those who said they have brighter PLC lights, that's because their LED downlights could be of inferior quality and cannot produce the brightness that they should have. Those who said LEDs are brighter than PLCs... well, they may have good LED lights. So that's where the confusion comes in. Initially, when I encountered this difference of opinion, I was shocked. I was like... Who's telling the truth?! And as I mentioned, the difficult part is that there is no scientific way to compare because practically all the LED downlights are brandless and built differently. Some are just better than the others.

I've heard people say bad things about Philips LEDs as an example from personal experiences. They could have singled out other brands, but Philips is THE one who got the blame because they just malfunctioned earlier than expected. But it's easy to misquote of course. Just because someone's expensive brand electronics gadget breaks down by law of probability, it is easy to stereotype that brand is lousy! But that experience could be a rare one.

Unfortunately, the lighting market in singapore is very divided now and I don't foresee LED as the mainstay for the next few short years. I would say people here are just starting to use more LEDs but sparingly if ever they choose to do so. Energy saving bulbs are still the more popular ones. How do you check that the LED is driven by an efficient circuit?

Hmm, is there a catch in dealextreme?! I've heard of it but the prices are so much cheaper than elsewhere. For eg, a 3W LED is selling for $4+, while I was quoted at least $30 in shops here!! Yes, that's what I've heard about LEDs. Honestly, for most houses, we don't switch on 12-15 hrs a day. So that's why some people say LEDs are not necessary for home use.

Thanks everyone for joining in the discussion. So I am not alone in having headache buy LEDs! albertchng: The E27 LEDs have drivers already built in right? I have heard of Samsung LED but have never been able to find them in shops! Actually most LEDs are made in China, even Philips and Osram. But I don't mind made in China stuffs provided they have QC and originate in some other countries. For eg, iPhone is also made in China! But I believe the QC there is strong since Apple is a US company. I was told Philips LEDs don't last. And they are so expensive, After a few years, it is disappointing LEDs have not gained a strong foundation here. My conclusion is that there is no scientific information readily available to consumers. So even the shop people talk nonsense sometimes. Either they try to fool customers, or they themselves got their facts wrong. If you visit enough shops, you will get confused because a handful will say LEDs are a waste or money, not as bright as PLC lights. Others will say LEDs are the way to go, They are brighter than PLCs. Very very confusing indeed. And it doesn't help that you can't compare prices fairly because most shops use their own sources in China to sell their LEDs. So if you go into a shop and they quote you $40 for an LED bulb, and in another shop it's $30 for the same watts, you might be tempted to go for the $30 one. But because they come from different manufacturer, and the bulbs have no brands, you can't do a fair comparison at all. It may be that the $30 bulb is indeed better than the overpriced $40 one. Or it can swing the other way: The $30 bulb won't last as long as the $40 one. And you can't test the bulbs also. Only time will tell which lasts longer. Headache!

I'm not sure if any has experienced like me. I never knew shopping for LED bulbs and downlights is filled with so much trouble and uncertainty. I've been to many lighting shops. Everyone will say good stuffs about their LED lights. For eg, I was looking for the MR16. Many shops sell their own "in-house" brands, usually made in China or sometimes Taiwan. Well, basically, they are brandless. These will usually cost cheaper than buying brands like Osram, Philips, etc. The problem is, they come in different watts and because they are of different brands, there is no objective way to compare brightness. Higher wattage does not mean brighter. And you thought familiar brands like Philips are good? I thought so too and that's why they cost a lot more. But I've heard shop people tell me Philips is not a good brand as it spoils easily. How confusing that can be! So expensive, with brand name, and yet spoils easily than no brand ones? Most LED bulbs come with only 1 yr warranty. Generally, many say to reap the benefits of less electrical costs of LED, we need to use them for about 1.5 years. If they spoil after 1 year, and I have to spend $ to replace it, I don't see how LED helps to save $ compared to the energy saving bulbs. Although some argue LED bulbs won't spoil so easily, it's the driver that does. Even then, the driver costs $ right? And I also heard that though LEDs have a long lifespan like what... 30,000 hrs? They actually start to dim slowly for the cheaper ones. So even if it dims to 70% of its original brightness, it's part of the 30,000 hrs. But that's almost as good as having to change a new one cos it's dimmer! Then, there's the square or round LED downlights. This one is another headache! Almost all of them are without brands. Some can range from as cheap as $50+ to more expensive $100+ ones, typically. And if it breaks down, you can't usually change anything inside. Got to replace the whole light. How do I know which is reliable? Every shop tells me their is good. But without any brands, with different watts, it's impossible to compare prices or reliability! I know some buy online at cheap prices. I'm tempted to do so, but I'm not sure about long-term reliability. Buy "branded" bulbs got problems. No brand also got problems! So how... Not sure if any of you share my problem when shopping for LED lights. So which LED MR16 or downlights should I get??? I hope we can share our experiences and knowledge here!

Hi, Can anyone please recommend me a ceiling fan with lighting? Those lights that maybe can be angled at different directions and if possible, cannot see the bare bulbs. All that I have seen so far have exposed bulbs which I feel less nice visually. I intend to install it at the open space balcony. Thank You! Can PM me if you want....

Thank u musicbox! I've sent you a PM. But I just realized what I should be looking at are wardrobe doors for my small walk-in wardrobe. I think using tempered glass for wardrobe doors is a bit of overkill right? Anyone any suggestions or have any contacts? Appreciate it!

Hi everyone, those of you who have used LED downlights. Which color do you opt for your room in which you do a lot of reading/studying? I've been getting mixed comments. Some say go for daylight (white), they are the most comfortable for the eyes compared to the rest. Others say white looks boring, too white. Choose a cooler warm color. More ambience feel also. Soothing for the eyes and less glaring. Yet others will say, go for the warmest color is the best! You can still read well with warm LED downlights. And it gives you the best cosy feel. But those against this kind of color will tell you NO!!! Warm yellow lighting is bad for the eyes for reading. Confused now! Hope can get some kind opinions here. Thank u!!

Hallo... I was wondering if anyone has contacts of contractors who do good quality sliding doors. The glass type of doors for kitchen, bedrooms/studyrooms or walk-in wardrobe. Could u please PM me or list the contacts here? Thank you very much. Appreciate it!

[Hi frezhman! Tried to PM you but think your mailbox is full. I noticed that you used Blum for your TV console. I'm thinking of doing that, but mine comes in 3 separate storage compartments instead of 1 large one like yours. Anyway, I'm still thinking of using Blum.... Did you buy the Blums directly from them, and then asked your contractor to install them? Also, I read that you used a USB fan connected to your game console. I think I need something to cool down the player and amplifier. Is the fan strong enough? I can get it from any computer shop in Sim Lim is it? I've thought about installing the fan at the TV console side (I know yours can't because of the Blum) but I don't think it will look nice with something black at the side. Thank u!

Thanks xtac. But what confuses me is that some tell me using the better wireless router can also allow fast Internet connection. And the range is quite far also.

Hi DesT, I'm a newbie to networking. But is there any advantage to running LAN points at home? Thanks for sharing.

Whoa, actually, I must say that looks like a heck lot of tiny LEDs there in 1 bulb! With just 1 such bulb, I must say it's super bright?! I hope you don't mind me asking, how much did it roughly cost you for just that 1 bulb? Since you can fit into the E27, the driver is built into the whole LED bulb right?

Folwer, thanks for sharing again! But the big LED bulbs that you got are not sold here in the shops is it? The ones that are commonly shown to me by the shops are the smaller "super bright" LED ones in your earlier first 2 pictures above. Did the electrician charge you extra for modifying the casing? I didn't know they do this. Thot should be done by the shop....

Hi it depends. If you are talking about the typical single Philips with 3 or 4 LED bulbs inside, then there is no way that kind of wattage can fight PLC with 2 x 13W. It's really sad, but I notice there are a good handful of salespeople who go round telling consumer lies. Maybe to cheat or their own ignorance. But do note that you cant use watts to compare brightness. It is possible that an LED downlight that is rated lower wattage can produce more light than another LED of higher wattage. Yes, I know it's confusing. You got to see what kind of downlight you are talking about.

Thanks folwer for more info. The link is dead? Yes, there are 2x___W PLC out there. That's the one that I saw which produced brighter light than the LEDs. The confusing thing about LEDs is that wattage alone does not say how bright the light is. And the shop assistants are sales people. If we ask them to compare the brightness using some scientific meters, they either don't have it or not interested to show. They only show on the spot. So far, like Allyssababy, I saw that the PLCs are brighter than LEDs. Maybe I think the bottom line is we must know how bright we want our place to be and also, for what purpose.

Wow, looks bright. This one is more for directional lighting like for spot light purposes, not for down light right.... Oh it's the electrician who does the modification. If I don't modify and I wish to change to PLC lights next time, the whole light holder or casing cannot be used anymore huh? So far, all your LEDs doing ok?

I'm not referring to the car type. That's "LED strip". Was talking about downlights. Can be any brand. Yes, I've considered in totality. In fact, I didn't go into the shops and asked them to show me just one bulb and interchange the reflectors, diffuser. I can't separate those isn't it? It's all built-in during manufacture. Maybe a clearer question I'm asking here would be: Is there the best LED setup or specification (for downlight) that can rival or beat PLC lighting in terms of brightness? The comparison has to be one-on-one. Meaning, one LED downlight casing vs one PLC downlight casing. So it really doesn't matter what reflector, diffuser, ballast one is using. Just the Best combination to make LED downlight brighter than PLC ones. I've been to many shops, not one of them tell me LEDs are brighter than PLCs. And when I saw the comparison, the difference is obvious. I'm referring specifically for LED vs PLC for downlights, not the LED strips or T5 lighting. Unless there's something those shops are not telling me. That's why I hope not to be cheated and would like to seek help here. Really appreciate it!

Yes, good choice. I was also thinking of using LEDs in places where I will use the lights often. I suppose the effect of LEDs will be different in that the light will be softer and not as bright as PLC ones? I like my living room to be bright so that reading is not an issue. Hence the guy recommended me PLC ones. So far for your living room and kitchen, with LEDs, you do find the brightness ok? You mentioned "2x13W" above. It's PLC right? I've compared 7W/10W LED vs 2x14W PLC. The difference is noticeable. The PLC lights look more "brilliant" and easier on the eyes if I do reading. Actually, LEDs are the ones that will also dim over time. But they can generally last longer than PLC.

I'm not sure if we're talking the same thing. I'm referring to the downlights. Saw at the shop. LED downlights (most powerful ones) indeed look dimmer than the energy saving, non-LED ones.

Folwer: Seems like yours is a good installer. Unfortunately, I cannot control who I get to install the lights. My concern now is not so much who installs the lights, but more of what kind of LED downlights I should get. There are different brands, different wattages. And is there such a thing as 14W LED lights? I don't wish to be cheated by the shop. They are charging $125 per LED downlight set! Although the full warranty is 3 years extended. Whisper: It sounds to me the downlight you got uses energy-saving bulbs, not LEDs. That's because I've seen the Philips bulbs which are of your kind of configuration. Anyway, it's really confusing going into all these lighting stuffs. Over here, I read some recommending LED downlights for their cost-savings. But when I go to the shops, generally the people there tell me to go for the energy-saving, non-LED lights. I was given a comparison and indeed, the energy saving kind is a lot brighter which makes the place nicer and good if you want the lights for reading and entertaining guests. The LED ones (already the brightest available) looked pretty weak beside them. Unless that's the intention of the home owner? Moreover, the shop owner said although most people think LEDs help to save $$$, it's only in the VERY long run perhaps. Because for our homes, we don't turn on the lights continuously for long. And LEDs do spoil too. The cost of changing them may erase whatever other savings you may get from LEDs. Headache man! How to decide... Please help!