Diy Whole House Electrical

[bepgof 20]

Your cases sound scary. I will rather pay more for a experienced electrician to do the house wiring than have people injured at home or fires happen at home.

I've been in power electronic line for 17 years. Every working days, see cables. I see those 120mmsq cable "jump" when inrush current passing through. Those cable/power within HDB unit is "nothing" to me.

S'pore's building renovation mkt has been "flooded" with many PRs and malaysians, some with experience but no cert/license, especially electricians. My present unit's re-wiring was done by the 2 malaysian brother-team, have co registered in M'sia but not Singapore.

ID is held responsible for "any thing wrong", I paid the brothers cash & insist on get a "receipt" with their M'sia co's letter head.They are nice, efficient, workaholic, friendly. ID know them because from same village in M'sia. Their familaies in JB.

Before DB ready, aircon team came in. Installed and did commissioning same day. I've reminded the team leader (A malaysian too) the temporary cable (16mm sq) laid from incoming by the 2 brothers has no earth cable, could cause some leakage current(potential difference) at the casing at the compressor unit and be careful. Ended up he get "shocked" by accidentally touching the mounting bracket.

Edited June 3, 2010 by bepgof

[sunnytan31 0]

Your cases sound scary. I will rather pay more for a experienced electrician to do the house wiring than have people injured at home or fires happen at home.

Anything pertaining to electric is always scary and must always handle with care. Is very nice of bro, bepgof, to share so much knowledge.

For my hse, to enage an electrician to do my electrical, it going to cost me $6k, if diy, material abt $800 + 5 days annual leave. So I rather do myself and get my aircon contractor to provide a cert.

[sunnytan31 0]

- Not a wise decision to have "heavy duty" electrical appliances at home, unless no choice. No matter how "thick" the cables are or how big the rating of the mcb is.

- "Central" storage hot water system/heater requires 3-5kw, but not instant heater ! With modern thyristor-controlled power, a 2000w is very much more than enough. With less than 10 seconds, you can get the required "hot water" to your taste.

- 3.6kw water heater is for high water flow rate, hotel, bathbed.

- For future expansion, use 10A, no harm.

- Better test the 20mA Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker whether in working condition.

Cable's insulation material(H05V-K) is sensitive to heat as well as UV light. Many house/shop caught fire because of this constant over-stressed of cable.

To tell you more:

- I was given a 16-day MC last May, right palm (4 fingers, top portion) badly burnt by instant extreme high heat caused by short circuiting. Exposed to heat less tha 2 seconds, I dared to say. 50mm sq cables caught fire and melted immediately. Wrote a report to MOM.

- Almost some 12 years ago, I was "shocked" by 22kv, 60hz in S.Korea, fainted. Sent to hospital immediately. Now, still holding the hospital card as "present".

Bro, before I continue, I really need to thank you for sharing such valueless knowledge. Thanks.

I do agree with avoiding heavy duty appliances but my instant heater, HERE stated 3.6kw leh, so need to go for 4mm wire?

So in my DB, I only see MCCB(40A), ELCB, 10A MCBs and 20A MCBs.

Edited June 3, 2010 by sunnytan31

[sunnytan31 0]

wiring diameter is based on the amperage of the MCB. if your MCB is 20A, your wiring shld be able to support more. if you are unsure, please get the CP5 book and see the specifications there, there is a standard increment to use, its been so long so i can't really remember whether its 10% or 20%.

the thicker wiring is because, the MCB will not trip until your current exceeds 20A, thus, your wiring if its only rated for 13A, will be taking excessive stress from 13A to 20A before the MCB trips the supply. if the system is drawing 15A, the MCB will not trip and your wiring will be constantly under stress.

Suggestion is, if you are not a licensed electrician, get someone to do the job. Its very very dangerous if the wiring is not done properly

Hi wolflet, is you... =)

Ya, this is the part I very confuse! When we mention 13A 3-pin, rightfully it uses 13A MCB with 2.5mm. But I dunno why my parent's house, they used 20A MCB "loop" to 3 x 13A 3-pin socket.

Have been staying here for 20+yrs and still trip when appliances short circuit. Instant heater 20A MCB 1 to 1, Aircon also 20A MCB 1 to 1, lights whole hse, "hamburger lights" 6A MCB. All use 2.5mm cables.

In short, inside their DB, I only see MCCB(40A), ELCB, 6A and 20A MCBs...

Tested and approved by HDB authorised electrician.

Edited June 3, 2010 by sunnytan31

[bepgof 20]

Bro, before I continue, I really need to thank you for sharing such valueless knowledge. Thanks.

I do agree with avoiding heavy duty appliances but my instant heater, HERE stated 3.6kw leh, so need to go for 4mm wire?

So in my DB, I only see MCCB(40A), ELCB, 10A MCBs and 20A MCBs.

- The incoming breaker is not MCCB (moulded casing circuit breaker), MCCB has "thermal trip" & "magnetic trip" fuctions, can put a shunt to trip it externally. MCCB is much more expensive than MCB.

- The incoming is a "normal" ELCB with "earth leakage current trip coil" - HDB usually is 20mA, Hospital's ICU equipment with 5mA....

- Better use 4mm sq for heater. Use the 20A mcb.

- 10A mcbs for lightings, fans

-20A mcbs for aircon (individual), heater (individual)

- Use 15A rating 3-pin (round) socket & plug for aircon & heater. Normal 13A power socket cannot last for long with 15A(aircon) & 16A(heater).

- 20Amcbs for 13A-3 pin power socket....

In 1992, I drilled & installed lighting myself & did some modifications to lighting looping & power points looping. Now not "motivated" already. Those ceiling trunkings... need skills, good luck. I plastered the whole house in 1992 & sanded them. The hammer drill & electric sanding tools still in my store. Try using Legrand switch-very nice.

Edited June 4, 2010 by bepgof

[wolflet 1]

Hi wolflet, is you... =)

Ya, this is the part I very confuse! When we mention 13A 3-pin, rightfully it uses 13A MCB with 2.5mm. But I dunno why my parent's house, they used 20A MCB "loop" to 3 x 13A 3-pin socket.

Have been staying here for 20+yrs and still trip when appliances short circuit. Instant heater 20A MCB 1 to 1, Aircon also 20A MCB 1 to 1, lights whole hse, "hamburger lights" 6A MCB. All use 2.5mm cables.

In short, inside their DB, I only see MCCB(40A), ELCB, 6A and 20A MCBs...

Tested and approved by HDB authorised electrician.

if you are to use a 13A MCB for each 3 pin plug u have, there circuit box will be very very big. usually the sockets are all grouped into zones. eg. bedroom/kitchen and they use a 20A MCB for the groups.

During short circuits, the current will be very very high, way over the 20A of the MCB. thats why it will still trip. and protects the entire network from damage.

Some electricians just use 2.5mm for the whole house without regards for the equipment or MCB rating. imo, its very dangerous in the long run.

I've returned most of my electrical knowledge to my poly lecturer will try to help where ever i can

[sunnytan31 0]

if you are to use a 13A MCB for each 3 pin plug u have, there circuit box will be very very big. usually the sockets are all grouped into zones. eg. bedroom/kitchen and they use a 20A MCB for the groups.

During short circuits, the current will be very very high, way over the 20A of the MCB. thats why it will still trip. and protects the entire network from damage.

Some electricians just use 2.5mm for the whole house without regards for the equipment or MCB rating. imo, its very dangerous in the long run.

I've returned most of my electrical knowledge to my poly lecturer will try to help where ever i can

U dip in electrical arh? I dip in electronics. =)

Sianz. Thot of doing everything using 2.5mm but looks like 4mm is coming into the picture. Hmmm...

[sunnytan31 0]

- The incoming breaker is not MCCB (moulded casing circuit breaker), MCCB has "thermal trip" & "magnetic trip" fuctions, can put a shunt to trip it externally. MCCB is much more expensive than MCB.

- The incoming is a "normal" ELCB with "earth leakage current trip coil" - HDB usually is 20mA, Hospital's ICU equipment with 5mA....

- Better use 4mm sq for heater. Use the 20A mcb.

- 10A mcbs for lightings, fans

-20A mcbs for aircon (individual), heater (individual)

- Use 15A rating 3-pin (round) socket & plug for aircon & heater. Normal 13A power socket cannot last for long with 15A(aircon) & 16A(heater).

- 20Amcbs for 13A-3 pin power socket....

In 1992, I drilled & installed lighting myself & did some modifications to lighting looping & power points looping. Now not "motivated" already. Those ceiling trunkings... need skills, good luck. I plastered the whole house in 1992 & sanded them. The hammer drill & electric sanding tools still in my store. Try using Legrand switch-very nice.

Bro, I do agree... Ceiling trunkings are the killer and bingo, I'm going for Legrand Mailla Switches... =)

[sunnytan31 0]

My house current DB Box...

[bepgof 20]

Hi Sunny Tan 31,

Read your blog, some personal comments:

- Kitchen sliding door, width best to be > 44 inch, for 2 ppl passing throgh. Too narrow feel "cramped" -everyday has to face it. Use top hung roller system. 10mm thickness, tempered glass. If can have wooden frame, lagi more classic. Insist on Naytoh wood only, if use.

- Better to have "leather" sofa instead of "textile" type, collect dust, dust-mite easily. Get "cheap" leather set frist, use for 3-5 yr & change later to full-cow heigh leather, you will start to appreciate "leather", anyway, take time.

- My previous house has "warm" & "white" downlights, initial thoughs like yours. Ended up seldom switching on "warm" light, cos cannot do reading with this. With yellow warm light, ambience trends to be "softer", correct. Practicality comes first. You will understand one day.

- Marbles are "minerals(dead bodies of....) under seabed" after hard compression for many years & later surface to beyond sea level. The surface shine therefore fades easily naturally, if possible, don't use marble dinning table, or table with marble top. Choose wood, full teak or Nyatoh, 1.6 to 1.8 meters long, solid legs, without screws or nails, heavy, bowl of soup not pour out if accidentally hits table. From dinning table, able to tell owner's characters. Worth to "invest" on this, this table & chair will follow u all life long. Unlike sofa. Good to cut a 5-7mm thick tempered glass to cover the surface.

-Modern carpentry tend to have many sharp corners & edges and make visual effect "solid and not flexible", try your best to reduce some by smoothen them. Put some "round" objects in hall/dinning to "neturalise" the visual effects. eg, round clock, sofa set with round arm rest, corners, etc.

- Use all stainless steel (SS316 is best) or glass wares in tiolets, no wood, mirror without mercury layer at back.

Hope you can digest what is written here.

Edited June 6, 2010 by bepgof

[sunnytan31 0]

Hi Sunny Tan 31,

Read your blog, some personal comments:

- Kitchen sliding door, width best to be > 44 inch, for 2 ppl passing throgh. Too narrow feel "cramped" -everyday has to face it. Use top hung roller system. 10mm thickness, tempered glass. If can have wooden frame, lagi more classic. Insist on Naytoh wood only, if use.

- Better to have "leather" sofa instead of "textile" type, collect dust, dust-mite easily. Get "cheap" leather set frist, use for 3-5 yr & change later to full-cow heigh leather, you will start to appreciate "leather", anyway, take time.

- My previous house has "warm" & "white" downlights, initial thoughs like yours. Ended up seldom switching on "warm" light, cos cannot do reading with this. With yellow warm light, ambience trends to be "softer", correct. Practicality comes first. You will understand one day.

- Marbles are "minerals(dead bodies of....) under seabed" after hard compression for many years & later surface to beyond sea level. The surface shine therefore fades easily naturally, if possible, don't use marble dinning table, or table with marble top. Choose wood, full teak or Nyatoh, 1.6 to 1.8 meters long, solid legs, without screws or nails, heavy, bowl of soup not pour out if accidentally hits table. From dinning table, able to tell owner's characters. Worth to "invest" on this, this table & chair will follow u all life long. Unlike sofa. Good to cut a 5-7mm thick tempered glass to cover the surface.

-Modern carpentry tend to have many sharp corners & edges and make visual effect "solid and not flexible", try your best to reduce some by smoothen them. Put some "round" objects in hall/dinning to "neturalise" the visual effects. eg, round clock, sofa set with round arm rest, corners, etc.

- Use all stainless steel (SS316 is best) or glass wares in tiolets, no wood, mirror without mercury layer at back.

Hope you can digest what is written here.

Bro, these are valuable comments which I love to read on.

Yap, Kitchen wallk way by calculation is abt 1950mm, 50% fix 10mm glass panel and 50% top hung 10mm sliding door, so should be ok bah.

Sofa, initially me and my wife was going for Seahorse leather sofa @ ard $1k but who know that day seahorse throw 70% discount on textile sofa. So after taking consideration that we got 2 young kids, we cfm on textile lor. Imagine $390 for 4 seater L-shape, cover changeable. Really cheap cheap best buy, don't will cry.

My downlights I'm taking coolwhite, something in between warm and daylight. Downlight is meant for relax time, main light is meant for study or Mahjong... But I do agree, too many warm light can make someone mood become "sian". That's why I have 2 different themes and many ppl says overwheming..

Dining table.... I know marble shine cannot last and cannot stand extreme usage like eat steamboat. I was kind of regret bcos at that price, I can buy better design table. Haiz...

Carpentry, so far I don't have many carpentry works... Only kitchen cabinet, full height shoe rack and tv console. For my mbr, I'm doing pole system. Kids, use current plastic drawers bcos no $$ liao...

Stainless steel accessories, I know abt 316 grade but how to ensure those selling out there are pure 316? I know Wei Mei very ex, wondering is Sim Chiang Choo good?

[bepgof 20]

Bro, these are valuable comments which I love to read on.

Yap, Kitchen wallk way by calculation is abt 1950mm, 50% fix 10mm glass panel and 50% top hung 10mm sliding door, so should be ok bah. 1950mm=77", 50% = 38.5", abt 3feets +3 " !- still too narrow for me.

Sofa, initially me and my wife was going for Seahorse leather sofa @ ard $1k but who know that day seahorse throw 70% discount on textile sofa. So after taking consideration that we got 2 young kids, we cfm on textile lor. Imagine $390 for 4 seater L-shape, cover changeable. Really cheap cheap best buy, don't will cry. Sofa need to be replaced every 3-5-7 yrs, to me.

My downlights I'm taking coolwhite, something in between warm and daylight. Downlight is meant for relax time, main light is meant for study or Mahjong... But I do agree, too many warm light can make someone mood become "sian". That's why I have 2 different themes and many ppl says overwheming..I have total 48 coolwhite PLC within whole house, each module comes with 13wx2 tubes & chokes.

Dining table.... I know marble shine cannot last and cannot stand extreme usage like eat steamboat. I was kind of regret bcos at that price, I can buy better design table. Haiz...My present house is the 3rd one. What I'm trying to say is: make a point to "remain" something to remember the "old days" , for next time you got a bettter new house. Experience tells a good, sold dinning table can follow you all the way till end of journey of life.

Carpentry, so far I don't have many carpentry works... Only kitchen cabinet, full height shoe rack and tv console. For my mbr, I'm doing pole system. Kids, use current plastic drawers bcos no $$ liao...Kids- plastic drawers -correct! They'll grow up, then change again. I did that too, some 14 years ago.

Stainless steel accessories, I know abt 316 grade but how to ensure those selling out there are pure 316? I know Wei Mei very ex, wondering is Sim Chiang Choo good? Color can tell, got ss412, 700 series too. Non-shining surface, a bit gray-look is good enough.

Edited June 6, 2010 by bepgof

[sunnytan31 0]

Any idea roughly for a 4A resale flat, how many 1" and 1.5" pvc casing need to standby. So far I bought 15 x 1" and 20 x 1.5", seem like 1.5" still not enuff leh...

[bepgof 20]

Any idea roughly for a 4A resale flat, how many 1" and 1.5" pvc casing need to standby. So far I bought 15 x 1" and 20 x 1.5", seem like 1.5" still not enuff leh...

Wow Piang, you have to agar agar, you are the only one know the routing and distance, buy less is better than buying more, unless can refund. Still can buy some more if not enough hor.

Edited June 24, 2010 by bepgof

[sunnytan31 0]

Wow Piang, you have to agar agar, you are the only one know the routing and distance, buy less is better than buying more, unless can refund. Still can buy some more if not enough hor.

Long long nvr update this post liao...

End of the day, I used...

1.5" PVC Casing - 58pc

1" PVC - 14pc

1.5mm wire - 7 rolls (3 Red / 2 Black / 2 Green)

2.5mm wire - 6 rolls (2 Red / 2 Black / 2 Green)

4mm wire - 3 rolls (1ea)

Coaxial - 50m+

Telephone Cable - 30m+

LAN, I give up as all access holes are full, kind of impossible to run 2 x LAN points to every rooms, hence go and exchange for "7029" cables.... The photo attach below marked the completion of my DIY electrical work... Hurray!!!

6 x 10A MCB

12 x 20A MCB

Edited August 19, 2010 by sunnytan31