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Piping & Electrical

The piping is different for instant heaters and storage heaters, so you do need to decide on what type of heater you are going to use, before the plumber lays his pipes.

For instant heaters, it is very simple. At the place you want to put your shower head, you need one water outlet. Normally, people put a two or three way tap there. One is the tap, the other connects to the instant heater via a flexible hose. That is all. You of course need to run one electrical point to the heater.

For storage heaters, you need to lay hot water pipes from the heater location to all your usage points i.e. shower, bath tup, tap etc. At all these usage points, there will be two water outlets, one hot (leading from the storage heater) one cold (direct from the water mains). The taps and shower sets that you buy should be those hot/cold water types with two inlets.

Temperature Control

For storage heaters, the water coming out of the hot water pipe is very hot. You cannot control the water temperature in the tank. Instead, you control by turning your tap (usually a mixer) by using a mixture of hot (from the tank) and cold (from the mains) water. Normally, I use 50:50 but many people will use more hot than cold water. For instant heaters, you are using entirely the water coming out of the heater. Even at its highest setting, I do not recall it being very hot. However, most heaters have at least 3 settings for you to control the temperature.

Some Other Facts about Instant Heaters

I don't know if anyone experience this. In the midst of your shower, your helper decides to operate the washing machine, and your shower water temperature shoots up. This is because as another tap is turned on, the water flow rate to the instant heater is reduced, and the water gets heated up more. If your instant heater has a setting to allow you to increase the flow rate, you can turn it up, and so the temperature drops back to your desired temperature. But then, when the washing machine stops, the water flow rate goes up, and the temperature drops!

And if in the midst of your shampooing, there is a power failure, your hot water supply is stopped immediately.

 

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Join 46,923 satisfied homeowners who used renotalk quotation service to find interior designers. Get an estimated quotation

Hi kstoh,

do u hv any recommendations on types of red wine(affordable though) for consumption on wedding dinner & places to get them...? I assumed u have a wealth of experience on this... :D

So sorry. I do drink some wine but I am not knowledgeable at all on this topic. I buy all my wine from NTUC FairPrice Finest (wine card member gets additional discount). Their selection is pretty decent. They often have sales and you can get some decent good wines during these sales e.g. buy one $25 red wine get one free.

I like to drink sweet wine like Moscato (personal favourite is Long Flat Moscato). But these are inexpensive table wines that cost about $18 each and friends who are wine lovers say I am drinking ribena. Probably not the sort of wine to serve guests at a wedding.

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Edited by kstoh
 

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It's been a joy to read. You have a knack for breaking things down really well.

I'm currently investigating gas heaters. I'm at triple one Somerset having a coffee before I head into city gas actually. Will see if I have anything interesting to share after the experience.

LED lights was also something I'm very interested in, but now that I hear about the driver issues, it might require a bit more research as well.

I was also wondering, when you guys do reno with an ID, but choose to DIY/ supply your own materials for various bits cos you can get it cheaper; don't the IDs just inflate another area with the money they were supposed to make on the first aspect?

 

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Hi Dwinsplace, if the instant gas heater can deliver on demand sufficiently hot water at a sufficiently high flow rate (good enough for rain shower, bath tub etc), then I think it is a good option, since it combines the best of both worlds. I am just wondering if that is the case, why is it not as popular as storage heaters?

I can think of two reasons: (1) Piped gas is not available in all estates. My estate has no piped gas, so this option is out, unless I use LPG, which is super impractical for heater use. (2) Storage heaters are normally placed in the toilet itself, very near the shower area. I read that for HDB, the gas heater must be in the service yard? If the distance from yard to your toilet is far, that may be an issue.

If you read one of my earlier posts, you will discover that halfway, my wife more or less decided she did not need the ID's services, and took back many of the works. This is only possible if your works are itemised, such that we could include / exclude the different types of works. Not possible or difficult for the ID to inflate another area. Of course, if yours is a lump sum contract, then the ID may just do that.

Edited by Ks Toh
 

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I suspect that Storage heaters have been around for much longer and so its more well known. Gas heaters by comparison are only gaining some popularity in recent years I believe. Could it also be that the discrepancy between the electricity and gas tariffs were not as great before? So people didn't need to consider an alternative?

Previously the competition seemed to be between instant electric vs storage and once you factored in the ability of storage tanks to provide hot water to more than one location, then the option becomes alot clearer.

I went to CItygas today as I mentioned and there was a guy there who was very helpful and passionate about sharing information on gas heaters.

Here's what I learnt in a breakdown:

1. He's not actually fully certain if gas will save money in your utility bill. If both instant electric and gas consumes the same amount of power then yes, gas will save. However, there could be electric models that have lower energy demands. Also he admits that there could be water wastage issues with gas. And gas would still consume SOME electricity either with a battery for ignition, or the newer AC powered models. AC power on standby 24/7 will drain about $1.50 on your utilities a month at current rates he says.

2. It should have more water pressure than an instant electric. The flow rate is higher and there is also the pressure from the normal cold water adding to it.

3. It can provide hot water to more sources than an instant electric. You just need to run pipes to each area.

4. There have been no cases of gas leaks to date.

5. Installation can be done in a few hours. UNLESS you have existing kitchen furniture, in which case they need to conduct a site visit to see if they can run the gas pipe within safety regulations.

6. Macro is the most common and best reviewed brand they have. Ferrolli is newer but has more complaints.

 

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Can Storage Heaters Improve the Flow Rate for your Water Supply?

I read some anecdotal evidence that if the flow rate of your water supply is not strong enough for your rain shower, you can improve it by using a storage heater. Is this true, and how can this be so? I googled and could not find any answer. I had a theory but was still doing research until I read what you said, which coincided with my theory, which I must stress, is based entirely on pure speculation! Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable can assist.

2. It should have more water pressure than an instant electric. The flow rate is higher and there is also the pressure from the normal cold water adding to it.

3. It can provide hot water to more sources than an instant electric. You just need to run pipes to each area.

So, here is my theory ....

Assume the water flow from your tap was supposed to be 100% and you just bought a rain shower set which operates optimally at 100% flow rate of water. (I have no idea how to measure flow rate but I just use a simple figure. I am also kind of mixing up water pressure with flow rate, but they are actually two different though related measurements).

However, you live on a high floor (with water supplied from pump on ground floor) and the water flow rate is only at 80%. You can still install a rain shower (directly to the tap) but it operates only at 80%, not at its optimum performance. If you install an electric instant heater, the flow rate goes down to say, 60%. And if you connect your rain shower to the instant heater, I think maybe the rain shower will not work, or it will not work properly. Insufficient flow rate at 60%.

Now, if you use a storage heater, the shower head is receiving water from two pipes, one from the cold water supply, one from the hot water storage tank, both at around 80% but forced into one shower head. So the flow rate becomes 160%, or certainly more than 100%. In other words, the flow rate increases.

If the new instant gas heaters work the same way, I think they can also improve the flow rate. However, I assume that for instant gas heaters, the flow rate out of the heater will still be reduced, though not as much as electric instant heaters. Hence, the flow rate at the shower head will still be lower than what you can get with storage heaters.

The above make sense or not???

 

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Your house looks good! Mind if you can take a closer shot at the black tiles joining edge for the kitchen countertop and if the underside of your countertop is also tiled?

Hi, it this what you want?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9DCcfkrQ-Xvb1k4U2MzenE5QkU/edit?usp=sharing

Underside and back not tiled. Side and bottom tiled.

P.S. My Photobucket account keeps running out of bandwidth, so I am trying to use Google Drive above. Is there a way to do Image Display like what can be done for Photobucket images? Or is there a better service provider?

Edited by kstoh
 

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Can Storage Heaters Improve the Flow Rate for your Water Supply?

I read some anecdotal evidence that if the flow rate of your water supply is not strong enough for your rain shower, you can improve it by using a storage heater. Is this true, and how can this be so? I googled and could not find any answer. I had a theory but was still doing research until I read what you said, which coincided with my theory, which I must stress, is based entirely on pure speculation! Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable can assist.

So, here is my theory ....

Assume the water flow from your tap was supposed to be 100% and you just bought a rain shower set which operates optimally at 100% flow rate of water. (I have no idea how to measure flow rate but I just use a simple figure. I am also kind of mixing up water pressure with flow rate, but they are actually two different though related measurements).

However, you live on a high floor (with water supplied from pump on ground floor) and the water flow rate is only at 80%. You can still install a rain shower (directly to the tap) but it operates only at 80%, not at its optimum performance. If you install an electric instant heater, the flow rate goes down to say, 60%. And if you connect your rain shower to the instant heater, I think maybe the rain shower will not work, or it will not work properly. Insufficient flow rate at 60%.

Now, if you use a storage heater, the shower head is receiving water from two pipes, one from the cold water supply, one from the hot water storage tank, both at around 80% but forced into one shower head. So the flow rate becomes 160%, or certainly more than 100%. In other words, the flow rate increases.

If the new instant gas heaters work the same way, I think they can also improve the flow rate. However, I assume that for instant gas heaters, the flow rate out of the heater will still be reduced, though not as much as electric instant heaters. Hence, the flow rate at the shower head will still be lower than what you can get with storage heaters.

The above make sense or not???

I suspect that you are right to a degree. Sort of having 2 different sources (1 cold water pipe and 1 from a storage tank/instant gas) should boost the pressure a little.

But to say that storage would give more across the board might be too blanketing a statement. It would probably depend largely on the water pressure of the storage tank compared the the instant gas? I assume both have some sort of pump?

Haha waaaay too much conjecture at this point though I suspect. :)

 

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Interesting discussion. I never figured out how each will affect flow rate which is a major concern for rain showers.

From my own experience, I can vouch for instant gas heater for rain shower. Mine has an excellent flow rate and I live on the lower floor of a old condo.

The other advantage of instant gas heater is that you will never run out of warm water. Whereas it is finite in a storage heater. So if you have a few people using the rain shower, not enough hot water may be stored.

Oh and I never bought instant gas is cheaper either. If there truly are savings, it's minute.

Edited by greglhc
 

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kstoh,

do you have google+ ?

Hi, it this what you want?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9DCcfkrQ-Xvb1k4U2MzenE5QkU/edit?usp=sharing

Underside and back not tiled. Side and bottom tiled.

P.S. My Photobucket account keeps running out of bandwidth, so I am trying to use Google Drive above. Is there a way to do Image Display like what can be done for Photobucket images? Or is there a better service provider?

 

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Yes, I have. Can Google+ allow me to do image display here?

try this. See if this works for you

1) go to g+ and click share photo

2) select "add photo" from "your google+ photo"

3) click the "google drive" tab, you should be able to view your gdrive pictures and select those you want to share

4) click "add"

5) click "add" again

6) click "share", your photos will be share to your G+ profile (you may want to create a new circle with no one in it to share to)

7) you can now select the photos and copy the image URL. This URL should be RT friendly. I grabbed one of the photo from your earlier post and the result are below

Capture.JPG

 

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