Phantom

No. But COV might be more realistic towards Locals but premium towards PRs.

That's really wierd. The COV wouldn't get into his pocket would it. Or is this a new agent, he thinks that the Higher the COV the Higher the Commission. My take is COV is always a premium attached to the property, i loath paying COV and frankly i'm dealing with some agents now to press down the COV by offering a tiered commission. So the more COV I save, the more commission they get. Unfortunately, if you don't want to pay agent fee, it's not easy to get a flat as the agent might block your offer.

Fair points given. Similarly buying house also the same thing for us. 1) Previously we saw one place, negative sale.. quite desperate scenario, but wife and myself wasn't comfortable and we felt something wasn't being said... so we told our agent that time to decline offering anything.. 2) Recently when we were selling, there were a lot of people who wanted to buy our place, but we were adamant on our selling price... there were a couple of people who we turned away because we didn't feel comfortable dealing with them.. then the night before we got a very attractive offer and we asked if 3 of the other very keen buyers were keen to put an offer to us.. one family came down and basically came with the daughter and when we sat down to talk terms, he gave me an offer, the offer was attractive but I was very sure that I could squeeze out more from him if I wanted to. A couple of thousands here or there wouldn't have made alot of difference to him or me but at least everyone was happy and at the same time he also agreed to my extension request. I turned away all the appointments the next day onwards including one Chinese PR who wanted me to backdate the OTP and offered much more then my buyer... although I had not signed the Option with the buyer, I stuck to the original agreement. What comes around goes around. My wife is quite particular.. if she don't like the agent, we won't buy the place, if she don't like the place in terms of feeling, also we won't buy... so it really will be very much dependent on her views. I don't believe that I have said that I have any intentions of buying the HDB from the sellers like what "corporate raiders" do to firms... As i have mentioned a couple of times, I am trying to arrange a get-together with all parties. I'm just trying to understand the scenarios and potential pitfalls that might occur. Ultimately, they might agree to everything, then later pull a fast one on me... Basically I'm trying to cover my bases because I like that particular Area, Block, Floor and Price. =)

wooo... who's got the nice shiny medal ??

I like to have things trashed out before hand, if one of the party needs to stay for a short while and I can afford that to them, then yes. If not, then i'll tell them straight away before they accept my offer. Ultimately I don't want to go to the extent of having the neighboorhood friendly police officer evict out my seller(s)

As mentioned, I don't want to go to the extent of enforcing eviction, which is why I'm trying to arrange a meetup with all the relevant parties. Divorced status is fairly commonplace in today's society and I don't think there should be any stigma, some of my closest friends are divorced from the spouse. I believe that technically people undergoing divorce proceedings are not allowed to hold on to HDB flats jointly, hence the Matrimonial Plan (or something to the extent) for disposing of the HDB within 6 months. On the flip side, HDB does not typically enforce court orders. One party wants to sell and get on with life, the other party.. still not sure yet... which is what i'm trying to get the agent to find out.. 1) whether the person got place to stay 2) whether there are kids involved 3) whether got loan shark.. etc. Meanwhile I just viewed another unit in the area...

I'm taking advantage of the situation, I don't disagree. Haven't said so, I have not offered a ridiculously lowball price. The price discussed is a reasonable reflection of current market pricing. Many buyers were put off and apparently there's only me and 2 others that are interested.. I'm not sure about the part adding salt to injury. They will need to sell it to somebody along the way regardless unless the matrimonial plan is to sell back to HDB right? Fair point on the valuation report. I was mulling about requesting it online. The agent already given me the address.. Lodging the legal caveat was just a thought. Both parties have equal right to appoint an agent or to sell to another. I was just thinking if I was the first person technically that they signed the option with, if the other party comes in with another seller that would be troublesome for me. If the transaction goes through, yes it will be worth the trouble imho as the areas i'm looking at do not have many sellers. The only thing I am concerned about (if there are any other points I overlooked do point out) if the party staying in the flat does not want to move out after completion. Evicting someone would be inhumane regardless of any circumstance. I would like to speak to the other party at the same time to discuss and the agent is trying to arrange something..

hmm.. I was having a quick check with my lawyer who of course mentioned that I should appoint them to represent me instead of the hdb appointed lawyers.. They mentioned generally that it is possible that the court order can be gotten so that the court sign on behalf provided that a prospective sale fails because of a partner unwilling to sign.. yeah the thing is I will continue to look while trying to get this thru.. Yeah many units not selling for this kind of price..

Dear Renotalkers, Need some advice... I'm looking to buy a HDB from a couple.. Need to confirm but I believe court granted divorce proceedings. The problem now is one party is not selling and refuse to let the valuer in.. We are trying to sort that out because no valuation report means bank cannot grant LO.. Which also means that I won't be able to exercise the option... Agent telling me to request the valuation report under my name. Should I get the agent to pay for it first then I reimburse him later? at the same time request to put $1 option to minimize my potential losses? can the courts grant an order to sign the necessary documents if one party is willing to sign? Should I lodge a caveat ? Seems like lotsa trouble for a hdb flat.. Lol in case anyone asking.. Have not seen the place original condition more than 30 years old no valuation done but... Yeah I am interested to buy...

It really depends on your unit + condition of your place + facing etc + afternoon sun/morning sun + floor level last 3-6 months transactions.. then you work out a number that you think is reasonable to you. I advertised on the classifieds so I don't think it's difficult. Agents will say its better to let them represent you. Personally, I believe that if you have the time, and a spare mobile number it's better to DIY. It's a sellers market at the moment. PM me and I can tell you more.

As long as your MOP is met and your case is not a negative sale (Where your selling price is lesser then your outstanding loan) then proceeds will be case. Being a seller. if you want to engage agent, can be between 1% to 2%. no problem. Sellers are in better position.. i also just sold my place. heh heh.. one of the highest for last 12 months. similarly.. i also did my valuation myself. Anything else you want to know?

wooo... my 1st appointment is 1st week of may... exciting huh to get your new place?

erm.. mine took like 10mins on the average. Very nice lady. even tao pao breakfast to my place. That was the inspection before 1st appointment. if you are selling then you have to be around. buying.. erm.. no need to be around..

There might sometimes be issues, Check with the HDB to get confirmation. Much better then asking people on the forum. LOL>

It's a guideline. Not cast in stone. Agents don't advertise 1k or 2k for a HDB average cost around 400k. and 1% from seller is already 4k, 2% is 8k .. another 1% from buyer makes that 12k in total. Averagely, the marketing of a property can cost an agent between 180 to 350 in terms of petrol cost and newspaper advertising, unless the seller is difficult and puts a ridiculous price, resulting in ads every week for months... In a market like today, the cost of marketing is much lower, 1 or 2 day ad in classifieds you can get many calls in the days and weeks that follow.. Getting the leads of sellers is the highest cost of marketing. This can easily range into thousands as agents drop flyers at least twice a month in the same area for a couple of months.. other agents use techniques like false ads to get leads of buyers.. Agent's that are promoted typically share 90/10 with agency. so it's still alot of money on the average for 1 HDB sale. Only newbie agents share 70/30 for the first 10k of commission depending on agency, thats just a rough guide.. 1% paid to seller agent is a de-facto practice for a long time, one can choose not to pay and many times agent block the offer. Let's face it. I will pay the seller agent tier commission for my next flat, if he represent the seller as sole agent. if COV 15,000 and below : I pay 1% + let them refer my mortgage loan if COV between 15,001 - 20,000 : I pay 0.85% only if COV between 20,001 - 25,000 : I pay 0.75% only if COV between 25,001 - 30,000 : I pay 0.5% only Spoke to 2 agent and they quite keen to represent me to their seller. waiting for valuation reports. Performance base tiering makes more sense in current market to ensure seller agent works for u. Direct buyer don't want to pay agent fee? most likely you might get your offer blocked by the agent.

Taking advantage to earn some money for election drive. LOL. For investment yield, buying commercial makes a lot more sense. If the interest rate jumps up, alot of so called private property owners will find their rental can barely cover the installments. not to mention maintenance fees...

Depends on whether you are tight for budget and whether the insulation for the wiring is brittle.

I agree that the demand for HDB's outstrip the supply. The government did not foresee the influx of residents taking up HDB and the recent upswing in the property market. The points are valid. One point to note, illegal rental. There have been many reports of people buying HDB for rental and it makes absolute sense as the yield is much better. One key point to note is that if HDB's are supposed to be for affordable housing for residents to stay, then the gov has to tackle the issue of rental. In time to come maybe even every 3 or 4 out of 10 HDBs are rented out for rental yield. Then where's the affordable housing for residents. I foresee that maybe there could be a rule: 1) Owners of more than 1 private property cannot own HDB. 2) Owners of private property are not allowed to rent out HDB. This could push back the demand for HDB as rental investment properties at the same time it is as good as saying, don't think about renting your HDB out. It's purely for stay. prices of HDB's might come off drastically but at the same time, push more supply into the resale market as it doesn't make anymore sense to hold on a HDB for investment purpose. Similar Points are valid. Time bar is necessary imho to temporary measure to curb the demand side while they ramp up supply as BTOs still need at least 2-3 years to TOP. They cannot ramp up supply fast enough. So they will need to measures to curb demand. Upping cash portion is not a major issue to curb demand as still PRs are extremely good savers generally. Plus, you will price out many true Singaporeans who are cash tight to buy HDB.. political backlash is very high. What do you mean by impose limit of buy/sell?? Grant? How do you propose that? As for your 2.2, what's there to do for people who buy or sell their HDB for another HDB? Moving for locality, or other purposes, like schools etc.. It's nothing new, all the while people do that. Ultimately they are still owning 1 HDB and still staying. Which people should be encouraged to give up HDB?

1) Rise Time interval to sell. Curent MOP requirements look decent and unlikely to change. Might require owners who buy resale using bank loan, to increase from 1 year time bar to sell to 2 year. If using cash to buy, no time bar at the moment and potentially could increase to 1 year. 2) generally the time bars are already pretty effective, to curb speculative individuals, then the 2 above mentioned groups are more likely to sell within a short period, resale hdb on bank loan and resale hdb paid in cash. 3) Raising 5% cash component is high handed and extremely unlikely. A- imposing selling stamp duty unlikely, might result in sellers asking for higher COV. counter productive. B- imposing levy on people who rent out HDB and while maintaing private property, unlikely to have much impact because alot of people illegally rent out. Measures announced should be able to tackle the problem and yet at the same time cool tensions regarding foreign immigrants. I still stand by my views that A) Time bar for Permanent Residence, PRs (Couple) who are purchasing HDB resale flats are required to have resided/domicile Singapore for at least 2-3 years before being allowed to purchase HDB flats. B) Time bar for private property owners, are not allowed to buy HDB resale within 1-2 years if they still own the private property, this will also prevent the loophole where people are buying Private then HDB whereas, a person who buy a HDB in the resale market technically cannot buy a private within 3 years or 5 years depending on whether they take a bank loan or hdb loan. The requirement suggested is better as under current scenarios, it is not possible to enforce a private property homeowner to buy a HDB and expect them to live in the HDB for 3 years as it is possible many people are illegally renting out their HDB flats for profits. C) Clamp down on illegal HDB rental, impose measures of fine and imprisonment for owners, tenants. This will strike fear and tenants will not want to risk fine and imprisonment if they know the owner is illegally renting out. Agents involved will be striked off licences. Fear strategy best way to attack the market as manpower and resource is finite and HDB not able to police owners who illegally rent out their HDB. e.g. 40 units in propertyguru for rent in marine parade. Zun Bo? all out of MOP? Must stay 3 years leh if bank loan....

This is a real life case: "Vendor has to sell even if he has not signed the Option to Purchase" Facts The Buyer offered to buy a property at Rio Vista through an Agent. The Agent collected a cheque for 1% option money at the offer price of $500,000. This first offer was turned down by the Vendor. The Buyer then made a second offer at $506,000 and issued a new 1% cheque in exchange for the old cheque. The Agent wrote the following words on the back of the cheque “1% Deposit Sale of 26 Upper Serangoon View #04-32 Rio Vista S534206”. Throughout the entire negotiations, the Vendor was working in India and all communications were carried out through phone calls and emails via the Agent. Based on the exchange of email correspondence between the Agent and the Vendor, the Court established the following key findings: 1. One email from the Agent to the Vendor spelt out the key terms of the Sale in setting out the Option money, Exercise option period, Amount payable upon exercise of Option and the Completion date. 2. In another email from the Vendor to the Agent, he confirmed that he has taken “a decision to proceed to sell the property…” and went on to give the Agent instruction to bank in the option fee to his POSB account. Before the Vendor actually signed the Option to Purchase, he changed his mind about selling the property because he felt he might be posted back to Singapore in the near future. As a result, the Vendor called off the deal, refused to sign the Option to Purchase and tried to return the 1% cheque to the Buyer unsuccessfully. The Buyer proceeded to sue the Vendor for specific performance and damages. Interestingly, the Buyer eventually also sued the Agent for negligent misrepresentation and breach of warranty of authority once the Vendor alleged that the agent had no authority to conclude an agreement to sell the property. February 2010 Judgment The trial judge ordered 1. The Vendors to jointly sign the Option to Purchase in favour of the Purchase at the price of $506,000. 2. The Vendor to pay $15,510.05 damages to the Buyer. 3. If the Vendor should refuse to sign the Option to Purchase, the Registrar of the Supreme Court shall have the power to sign the Option to Purchase on behalf of the Vendor. 4. The Vendor to pay the legal costs of the Buyer and the Agent. The Court of Appeal upheld the trial judge’s findings when the case went on appeal and the Vendor lost his case. The Court rejected the Vendor lawyers’ arguments that there was no binding contract because the Vendor never signed the Option to Purchase based on the facts of this case. The Court found that there was a binding contract because the exchange of email established that the basic elements required for the formation of a contract; namely offer, acceptance, consideration and intention to create legal relations were all present. The Court also ruled that there was a clear and binding agreement to grant the Buyer an Option to Purchase. The terms of the Option were clear and unambiguous and it was significant that the Court actually found that the signing (which did not take place) was only a formality. Implications 1. When one is sending out emails, one must remember to qualify it with the remarks “subject to contract”, if the intention is not to be bound by the email correspondence until the Option is signed. 2. If the Vendor has not signed the Option to Purchase, the Agent / Vendor should not bank in the cheque until the Option is signed. Conclusion This is a landmark case that will be a guiding precedent in the years to come.

"1. HDB owner with private property sure kena...... 2. Buy, stay, then sell interval control? 3. COV payment in 1st appointment for bank loan??" I don't see how the above might control prices. 1) How they kena? 2) There is already a 1 year time bar for selling HDB flat with loan.. 3) COV payment in 1st appointment or 2nd appointment doesn't really impact anything rather than inconvenience and bar HDB sellers to buy another HDB until the HDB they sold is completed. Why do you want to implement a policy that will inconvenience and bar genuine hdb sellers looking to buy another hdb by asking them to come out cov in 1st appointment, many of such hdb sellers are selling to encash money out of their hdb to downgrade to smaller hdbs. These group of people are selling a home to buy another home. Effective measures could be: A) Time bar for Permanent Residence, PRs (Couple) who are purchasing HDB resale flats are required to have resided/domicile Singapore for at least 2-3 years before being allowed to purchase HDB flats, they can buy private properties condo. This would remove a big chunk of recent PRs to purchase HDB and cool off COV fever. This will resolve growing resentment among younger singaporeans who presume that PRs are kicking up the HDB prices. In actual fact, we won't know, many singaporeans could be downgrading from Private to HDB.. it could just be market driven. B) Time bar for Sellers who buy a private property are not allowed to buy HDB resale within 1-2 years if they still own the private property, this will also prevent the loophole where people are buying Private then HDB whereas, a person who buy a HDB in the resale market technically cannot buy a private within 3 years or 5 years depending on whether they take a bank loan or hdb loan. The requirement suggested is better as under current scenarios, it is not possible to enforce a private property homeowner to buy a HDB and expect them to live in the HDB for 3 years as it is possible many people are illegally renting out their HDB flats for profits. Suggestions are effective in my opinion to control and stabilize prices while have measures that are enforceable. COV and valuation should normalize within acceptable range once measures are in place. It is normal for prices of assets to increase over time, but the spike in property prices is a concern.

Buying a home is personal and it differs from each person. Good for you to find an area to live where you like the surroundings. From a price perspective, it's naturally that over time, assets might increase in value. There's no end to reminisce about the days when 5 room flats cost less than 250k or even lessor. Markets move in cycles and generally property assets are a decent inflation hedge. Marine Parade might have a more colourful crowd due to a mixture of private and hdb owners in the vicinity, plus the influx of younger generation who like the proximity of east coast, on the other hand, generally the younger generation today are different from the days when we were young and when our parents were young.

Yo Senior... You bought a place there already. of course say good!

Yeah.. I've stayed at Bedok/Geylang/Tiong Bahru/Marine Parade/East Coast/Simei/Tiong Bahru/Novena.. Like nomad.. lol.. personally i still prefer the east side around marine parade. probably coz I studied in the neighbourhood many many years ago.. I won't mind staying around Tiong Bahru but that's the furthest west I'd probably ever go. lol.. Ang Mo Kio Yio Chu Kang I've also studied there and even worked at Jurong.. so i guess more or less travelled around a good part of singapore already.. lol...

Yeah it's the old "i" model. I believe there are those with 1 toilet 1 shower also.. I stayed in East Coast area and studied in the area long time ago.. so I'm quite familiar. It just dawn on me that the 4room prices seem decently priced if the COV isn't too high.. Lotsa 4 rooms are selling at comparative prices.. except for the fringes, those are still cheaper like woodlands / yishun / jurong west. The utility room not big not small.. use for what?? store room? lol.. mahjong room?