Seller Threatened To Cancel Unless Agreed To Let Him Stay For Free After Closing

[forthekids 0]

Pls help.

1. My seller agreed to accept the $1K after we agreed to let him stay for a mth after closing for free.

2. On the day of signing the OTP, he asked for another 3 mths stay with 2 mths low rental charge to him and 1 mth charge to his agent which his agent agreed. So 1 mth free rental, 1 mth paid by agent and 2 mths at low rental. Or else he would not sign the OTP. We let him have his way cuz we don't want to go thru looking for flats anymore....very tiring.

3. Seller took his own sweet time looking for his own new flat. Price shoot up. 2 wks before the 1st appointment, seller called to say that he wanted his 2 mths rental free cuz he lost a lot agreeing to sell to us his flat. He accused the valuer under valued his flat and his agent had forced him into signing the OTP. IF we do not agree to the free rental....he wld not turn up for the 1st appointment and told us to sue him upon which he will sue the valuer and the agent if we sue him.

4. Thinking that we do not want to hv so much hassle in the process of buying his flat...we agreed reluctantly but only for 3 mths stay and not 4. He refused to accept our terms. So we hv to let him hv his way again.

5. On the 1st appointment day...he gave us an agreement written by him but wrote our name on the letter to show that we were the one who wrote the letter stating that we agreed to let him stay for free for 3 mths and plus 1 more mth paid by the agent. He made us signed the agreement and he also made the agent signed it.

6. The truth is...we r very upset up till today..IS IT LEGAL FOR US TO CHASE HIM OUT THOUGH WE HAD SIGNED THE AGREEMENT??? FYI...The agents are not helpful at all...kept on claiming they only do the sale ...after closing is not their job.

Edited May 18, 2010 by forthekids

[therat 18]

in the 1st place, you should not agree on his term and condition especially he repeating add more terms and request on it.

That agreement that you had sign is not legal and not realize by HDB.

once 2nd appointment complete, you can chase him out.

Just call the police.

OR you can do this

quote from HDB http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10322p.nsf/w/...ts?OpenDocument

Important Notes:

* Buyers and Sellers are reminded not to enter into any supplementary agreements/arrangements to allow the sellers to prolong their stay in the flat.

* After the signing of the transfer documents, the flat is legally under the buyers names and thus buyers will be held responsible for any and all matters related to the flat.

* If sellers require a longer time to vacate the flat, they should discuss the same with the buyers and inform HDB resale officers to schedule the completion appointment at a later date.

Tell the HDB officer, seller didn't vacant the unit. Ask for advice.

I would suggest do the legal and proper way

[ngunadi 2]

in the 1st place, you should not agree on his term and condition especially he repeating add more terms and request on it.

That agreement that you had sign is not legal and not realize by HDB.

once 2nd appointment complete, you can chase him out.

Just call the police.

OR you can do this

quote from HDB http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10322p.nsf/w/...ts?OpenDocument

Important Notes:

* Buyers and Sellers are reminded not to enter into any supplementary agreements/arrangements to allow the sellers to prolong their stay in the flat.

* After the signing of the transfer documents, the flat is legally under the buyers names and thus buyers will be held responsible for any and all matters related to the flat.

* If sellers require a longer time to vacate the flat, they should discuss the same with the buyers and inform HDB resale officers to schedule the completion appointment at a later date.

Tell the HDB officer, seller didn't vacant the unit. Ask for advice.

I would suggest do the legal and proper way

If it's like what therat said, play into the seller's ploy. After the 2nd appointment, evict him out.

If your agreement is not being stamp or legalized by HDB/URA/Other gov agencies, it's not valid and legal.

You can kick him out after 2nd apptment. Tell him to sue him back and you would say that you are being forced to sign the agreement otherwise you would lose 1k.

Remember to change all the keys and mailbox keys.

[wonderlee 1]

Hmm, why do you give way to him and it's ALL THE WAY? I will not agree to such a demanding request. Moreover, this is not an request but a MUST or rather I say a FORCE?

I agree with the rest, kick his *** off after the 2nd appt. Never sympathy this kind of blxxdy ppl. But if you will to sue him, and tell the judge that you are been force to sign the contract and everything, be sure to be questioned, are you been force to do so under 'weapon force' or 'life in danger'?

Edited May 18, 2010 by mstan_lee

[bepgof 20]

Pls help.

1. My seller agreed to accept the $1K after we agreed to let him stay for a mth after closing for free.

2. On the day of signing the OTP, he asked for another 3 mths stay with 2 mths low rental charge to him and 1 mth charge to his agent which his agent agreed. So 1 mth free rental, 1 mth paid by agent and 2 mths at low rental. Or else he would not sign the OTP. We let him have his way cuz we don't want to go thru looking for flats anymore....very tiring.

3. Seller took his own sweet time looking for his own new flat. Price shoot up. 2 wks before the 1st appointment, seller called to say that he wanted his 2 mths rental free cuz he lost a lot agreeing to sell to us his flat. He accused the valuer under valued his flat and his agent had forced him into signing the OTP. IF we do not agree to the free rental....he wld not turn up for the 1st appointment and told us to sue him upon which he will sue the valuer and the agent if we sue him.

4. Thinking that we do not want to hv so much hassle in the process of buying his flat...we agreed reluctantly but only for 3 mths stay and not 4. He refused to accept our terms. So we hv to let him hv his way again.

5. On the 1st appointment day...he gave us an agreement written by him but wrote our name on the letter to show that we were the one who wrote the letter stating that we agreed to let him stay for free for 3 mths and plus 1 more mth paid by the agent. He made us signed the agreement and he also made the agent signed it.

6. The truth is...we r very upset up till today..IS IT LEGAL FOR US TO CHASE HIM OUT THOUGH WE HAD SIGNED THE AGREEMENT??? FYI...The agents are not helpful at all...kept on claiming they only do the sale ...after closing is not their job.

1. Very interesting case yet sad for buyer.

2. Once complete sale (2nd appt) the flat is legally your & you'll start serving your mortgage loan, why let the seller stay free?

3. The course of action already mentioned in the HDB web : You should scan & forward the "agreement" to HDB officer in charge of the resale, asking for a LATER 2ND APPOINTMENT date. Bring this up to HDB office, you are now at upper hand, cos HDB will stand at your side in this case. You can use "ignorance" as excuse to void this agreement( 3mnth free stay), and realised the information in the HDB web only after the 1st appointment....

4. If you take bank loan, & have signed any form - transfer of CPF, quickly stop it until the NEW 2nd appointment date is known.

5. Quickly bring this up to HDB officer's attention.

Edited May 18, 2010 by bepgof

[blueocean 0]

The seller is obviously unhappy that he sold the flat for less than he wanted.

Before the 2nd appointment, you should call up the law firm and discuss what are the options available and that the seller is not willing to vacate. Letting the seller stay for any period of time is risky.

I have seen a number of cases whereby the new owner allows the present owner to stay for another 1-2 months after the completion of sale (ie after 2nd appointment). When the sale is completed, the legal owner is the buyer. Property tax/electrical bill etc is the responsibility of the buyer already. And what most people dont realise is that if there is a fire that breaks out which damages both your new flat and neighbour's flat, it is going to be a big hassle cos it is the legal owner (ie the buyer) that has to pay or settle that.

Also, i have also heard of a case whereby the new owner granted an extension after the 2nd appointment and one of the previous owner's family member committed suicide there ... Once the 2nd appt is done, there is no way of abandoning the sale as the title as already been transferred to the new owner.

Hope things go well for you ....

[chronograph 0]

Pls help.

1. My seller agreed to accept the $1K after we agreed to let him stay for a mth after closing for free.

This one can accept.

2. On the day of signing the OTP, he asked for another 3 mths stay with 2 mths low rental charge to him and 1 mth charge to his agent which his agent agreed. So 1 mth free rental, 1 mth paid by agent and 2 mths at low rental. Or else he would not sign the OTP. We let him have his way cuz we don't want to go thru looking for flats anymore....very tiring.

This one cannot accept. I'll just walked and claimed your 1k back.

3. Seller took his own sweet time looking for his own new flat. Price shoot up. 2 wks before the 1st appointment, seller called to say that he wanted his 2 mths rental free cuz he lost a lot agreeing to sell to us his flat. He accused the valuer under valued his flat and his agent had forced him into signing the OTP. IF we do not agree to the free rental....he wld not turn up for the 1st appointment and told us to sue him upon which he will sue the valuer and the agent if we sue him.

I'll sue him. If he wants to sue the valuer or agent that's his problem. (I highly doubted he will be successful, i bet he will keep his mouth shut if the market were to turn bad.)

4. Thinking that we do not want to hv so much hassle in the process of buying his flat...we agreed reluctantly but only for 3 mths stay and not 4. He refused to accept our terms. So we hv to let him hv his way again.

5. On the 1st appointment day...he gave us an agreement written by him but wrote our name on the letter to show that we were the one who wrote the letter stating that we agreed to let him stay for free for 3 mths and plus 1 more mth paid by the agent. He made us signed the agreement and he also made the agent signed it.

The letter should have both buyer and seller signature. Anyway this is illegal.

6. The truth is...we r very upset up till today..IS IT LEGAL FOR US TO CHASE HIM OUT THOUGH WE HAD SIGNED THE AGREEMENT??? FYI...The agents are not helpful at all...kept on claiming they only do the sale ...after closing is not their job.

If u r upset why signed and give in to the seller harsh request? HDB rules say no to any other form of agreement between seller & buyer, u have signed so u broke the rule even though u r force into it. U may get yourself into trouble as well can't advise u on this.

Speak to a lawyer.

Remember u r the rightful owner of the flat now.

[GSXR~RACER 0]

hmm, the give in part to whatever seller wants is not so good, to boost up seller's market... but i can understand the reality.. after mentally and physically set decision upon the flat already, and waited for first appt, dun want to have any problems, and just wanted the flat. so no choice but to give in..

about the written letter, its not exactly as many above said "not valid" part. although it is not registered with HDB, stamped, or whatever legalized, it is the "contract of agreement". It is still legally enforceable. It is the binding contract between the signed parties according to the terms stated in that letter. Even verbal agreement is as good as stamped contract if it is verifiable, e.g. like recordings or witnesses. so, dun abuse it else it will bite you back.

if this shi11ing seller still enforce that letter, u just have to let him stay as it says, but one day after that expires and if he dun move out, slap him upside down and kick his arse out.

[blueocean 0]

illegal contracts are not enforcable.

after the 2nd appt, the buyers become the owners. And if the original owners are still living there, they are already breaching HDB rules on rental and subletting.

[ngunadi 2]

illegal contracts are not enforcable.

after the 2nd appt, the buyers become the owners. And if the original owners are still living there, they are already breaching HDB rules on rental and subletting.

And in any case, the legal owner can evict the previous owner as they are illegal occupants.

Then, the previous owner could argue and sue the legal owner of breach of "contract". But again, will they do it?

Why the buyer would like to be black-mailed by the seller?

[GSXR~RACER 0]

It is the problem very common these days, about changind or wantint to change mind by the sellers, due to increase selling price after signing OTP. Many buyers, including me had an uneasy feeling and fear of seller backoff in face of increasing price.

The Root of the problem is HDB. There are two.

The bad thing about history is, until mid of last year, where the market is on the superheated oven, Mr Mah still saying there are plenty of flats, ppl not taking up new excess flats from HDB, and many are very cheap and affordable, blah blah.. fking dumbarse.. only realized the reality on the ground by 2nd half of 2009, but still didn't admit, but covered the backlag by releasing many BTO's. This should have done a year earlier.. OK lets set history aside.

The long waiting time for the 1st appt, and followed by another long time for 2nd appt.. thats a big problem cause the buyers worried. it was especially worse the end of last year where the prices are going up by every week. so many sellers want to back off and caused worries to many buyers. though they eventually comes to 1st appt, it was really bad feeling to be panic. this wait of nearly half year from buying time and getting the purchased is wayy wayy unrealistically long.

combination of those two, "waiting too long for 1st appointment, while the price going up like rocket" makes the seller become " u follow my demands, or call it off"...

[chronograph 0]

That's why the COV part come into play.

A transaction can takes months to complete, during this time price can go up. If u believe that the market is still going up, then u can ask for high COV to make up the future increase.

Once OTP signed, it is legal binding. I suggest the legal action should any party wants to back out of the deal.

[purecat 0]

Pls help.

1. My seller agreed to accept the $1K after we agreed to let him stay for a mth after closing for free.

2. On the day of signing the OTP, he asked for another 3 mths stay with 2 mths low rental charge to him and 1 mth charge to his agent which his agent agreed. So 1 mth free rental, 1 mth paid by agent and 2 mths at low rental. Or else he would not sign the OTP. We let him have his way cuz we don't want to go thru looking for flats anymore....very tiring.

3. Seller took his own sweet time looking for his own new flat. Price shoot up. 2 wks before the 1st appointment, seller called to say that he wanted his 2 mths rental free cuz he lost a lot agreeing to sell to us his flat. He accused the valuer under valued his flat and his agent had forced him into signing the OTP. IF we do not agree to the free rental....he wld not turn up for the 1st appointment and told us to sue him upon which he will sue the valuer and the agent if we sue him.

4. Thinking that we do not want to hv so much hassle in the process of buying his flat...we agreed reluctantly but only for 3 mths stay and not 4. He refused to accept our terms. So we hv to let him hv his way again.

5. On the 1st appointment day...he gave us an agreement written by him but wrote our name on the letter to show that we were the one who wrote the letter stating that we agreed to let him stay for free for 3 mths and plus 1 more mth paid by the agent. He made us signed the agreement and he also made the agent signed it.

6. The truth is...we r very upset up till today..IS IT LEGAL FOR US TO CHASE HIM OUT THOUGH WE HAD SIGNED THE AGREEMENT??? FYI...The agents are not helpful at all...kept on claiming they only do the sale ...after closing is not their job.

Sorry to hear your situation./ Is the agent who signed the seller's agent or your agent ? In a legal point of view, I think the agent plays the role as the witness to that side agreement.

Whether it is legal binding or not depends on the circumstances which you have signed it and in reality, it is difficult to prove u didnt sign it willingly. Mainly because you are literate and no one can force u sign a document unless you chose to . Hence if this gets to court, I think it is you the plantiff who have to prove that you didnt sign it willingly and not the seller.

However i do think if you allow the extension, you should be propely " rewarded" with rental at market rate. I do suggest you spend some money to engage a legal advisor for proper legal advice.

The spend is worth it because it is indeed true that the true owner ( after 2nd appointment ) will be responsible for the housing loan and all related home insurance. Hence it doesnt make sense for the seller who becomes a tenant already to stoop low in your flat. Check also if you can back claim him opportunity costs lost ? eg. By not shifting in or starting renovation early, you ended up having to live in a rented place, incurred warehouse costs to " park " your new purchases,etc

Edited May 18, 2010 by purecat

[bepgof 20]

hmm, the give in part to whatever seller wants is not so good, to boost up seller's market... but i can understand the reality.. after mentally and physically set decision upon the flat already, and waited for first appt, dun want to have any problems, and just wanted the flat. so no choice but to give in..

about the written letter, its not exactly as many above said "not valid" part. although it is not registered with HDB, stamped, or whatever legalized, it is the "contract of agreement". It is still legally enforceable. It is the binding contract between the signed parties according to the terms stated in that letter. Even verbal agreement is as good as stamped contract if it is verifiable, e.g. like recordings or witnesses. so, dun abuse it else it will bite you back.

if this shi11ing seller still enforce that letter, u just have to let him stay as it says, but one day after that expires and if he dun move out, slap him upside down and kick his arse out.

You are right about the offer, acceptance+ consideration = legal contract, whether spoken or written, in eye of Singapore Law, however, must see the OFFER & ACCEPTANCE, which in this case is the HDB flat. Gambling is exceptional.

- Allowing "somebody" other than the owner, to stay without consideration (rental) and is out of "gift" or "goodwill" from owner, it is ok.

- Allowing "somebody" other than the owner, to stay by accepting consideration(rental, $) by owner, in this case, breaches the HDB's MOP. Owner is in the wrong. NEVER do this.

- If this case is brough up to HDB, very likely HDB will advise both seller & buyer to adjour the 2nd appointment date to suit both. But look at OTP doc carefully, any period which is >8 week , starting from 1st appointment to 2nd appointment date, can render the whole transaction VOID, unless "special permission" is granted by HDB.

My opinion in this case is: Bring this case up to HDB, get prepared to get "longer" 2nd appointment date, will make the buyer "happier" - without paying instalment yet letting seller to stay for free !

This kind of seller is too much, need to be taught a lesson ! "Prolong" the 2nd appointment is the only neutral solution for both seller & buyer. HDB's facing more such situation where sellers , sell than buy hdb for own stay with today's long timing in 1st & 2nd appt.

- In fact, HDB should enforce "contra" facility on sellers who sell HDB unit and want to buy back HDB unit for stay !

Edited May 18, 2010 by bepgof