K's Reno Journey

[january 0]

Hey Kerio

Sorry to hear about your unhappy experience with your ID, but your reno is almost done so just grit your teeth and bear with it. All of us at renotalk are giving you moral support! With all the rectifications being done now I'm sure the end result would be quite good, so that's something to be happy about. Thanks for sharing your experiences, and all the best for the rest of the reno!

[Kerio 2]

Hey Kerio

Sorry to hear about your unhappy experience with your ID, but your reno is almost done so just grit your teeth and bear with it. All of us at renotalk are giving you moral support! With all the rectifications being done now I'm sure the end result would be quite good, so that's something to be happy about. Thanks for sharing your experiences, and all the best for the rest of the reno!

Thanks Jan!

I considered (very briefly) if I would still feel happy in the house after all this nonsense even if everything was done, but I decided that thought was foolish. I paid for it, so it's my right to demand things to be done properly! (though it's my first house! Couldn't this have been a happy experience?! )

This is the final week with a Handover date expected to be early next week, so I'm just gritting my teeth and bulldozing over the workers and company until things are done. I'm still hoping I can say something good about the company by the end of this entire fiasco!

[yeo99 0]

My friend, I am a fellow sufferer just like you. I don't have an ID, but I have a coordinator. My renovation is actually simple, no fancy deco or feature walls etc.

My renovation started in mid-September 2010 and is ongoing till now. I can only *hope* that it completes by mid-December. Even so, it would be 12 weeks, double of the original 6 weeks promised to me. Even the fact that I had told them I was getting married in mid-November wasn't enough motivation for them to not ruin it for us (to move in after our wedding).

I had already picked up on the slow work progress in mid-October, when I found on several occasions no one working at our place. They assured me it'd be done by early November, so I began demanding a work schedule and setting them incremental deadlines (which don't work by the way). I found that at this point of time, when so many HDB flats are changing hands, the contractors have more jobs than they can handle. Since our renovation contracts don't have an LD (liquidated damages) clause, its hard to obtain financial motivation for contractors to finish the job quickly. Tie the customer down, and take your time to finish the job.

The sh!t part is that if you insist on pushing ahead with your other plans (such as deliveries and installation of other stuff) you'll just cock up the whole process and make things worse. Things would get paint splattered, damaged, stepped upon, scratched, dropped, you name it.

They will always come up with excuses - handphone no battery, no stock of tiles, worker fall ill, worker quit, family member died got to attend funeral, got pulled to other project, etc etc etc. You'll hear them all.

As my flat was a resale unit, I required extensive hacking of old floor tiles. Can you believe it took three extensions of HDB hacking permits spanning two weeks to get it done? Admittedly it was an executive maisonette, but I only hacked the kitchen, toilets, and balcony floors as well as realigned the kitchen entrance.

Going down daily to check was no use either. I've seldom felt as helpless as this, watching the contractor deploy one or two workers a day to lay tiles, or poke around with a paintbrush. My coordinator could only keep telling me "I will check" when I complained to him about slow progress, lack of labour committment, etc. He didn't do much coordinating as far as I could see, because he couldn't control his resources. In the beginning of November it was so bad my coordinator would not answer my calls or text messages. I had to reach him through a third party.

Like you, I was suddenly told to get my airconditioning sorted out. This, after I told the coordinator beforehand to give me early notice, and was assured it would be early enough.

They had crap workers too - one notable incident had them laying out all the bits and pieces for three toilets on the floor (while painting and plastering etc was going on) only to discover that they needed to buy the connecting pipe to the floor trap. I pointed out that the toilet has so many small bits and pieces and you leave it out for people to kick around and later tell me parts were missing from the package? Then as the klutz was packing the stuff up, he dropped a spanner onto the cistern lid, breaking the corner off, right in front of me! I was so livid all I could tell the coordinator was "Change it".

Then they first managed to break the Open Net socket box, then later completed the destruction by chopping the fibre optic cable where it entered my flat. Final paint finishing is delayed because Open Net's earliest installation date is first week December and the trunking needed to be covered before final finishing can be done.

I've f*cked them upsidedown when things got really bad, but things didn't change. They still work at the same pace and committment as before. Now I only look upon them with disappointment and disdain. Today I just discovered one of my shower head handles was scratched. Thankfully its not the Grohe one, else I would have more ammo to shoot them with again.

The only saving grace is that workmanship was generally decent for the tiling (even gaps), carpentry (good workmanship), and windows (save for one bad worker from the window sub-con who was careless with my frames). Defects I pointed out were rectified fairly quickly.

The upshot of all this is that at this stage, I've held back on making many of my intended purchases as the house simply isn't ready to receive them.

Good luck with it, its a learning experience and you'll be smarter the next time.

It is true that now there are a too many jobs for the sub-contractors to handle. So, the work schedule can not be reliable at all. It is common to see one worker working in your house now because the sub-contractor can not provide more workers. The situation will not be likely to improve until CNY.

One trick some main contractors will do is to promise you that they will deliver on time during the discussion; once you sign with them, they will start at the date they promised, this is very important because it is an auspicious date for some customers by hacking the walls, etc. Then you are difficult to change contractor once the hacking is started. The rest you know lah…

If you meet a good contractor, he will tell you that it is impossible to finish the renovations within 1 or 2 month due to resource shortages. What I heard from my contractor is that he have to reject some customers now because he could not finish it on time. This is the correct attitude to do the business; not take it at the expense of customers.

Rushing the workers is not a good things to do as it will end up with poor workmanship. Also it is no point scolding them too as now the workers are the king because there are too many jobs to handle. Treat them nicely, they will do a better jobs.

It is truely a good learning experience for me as I have to handle two different contractors in a single renovation , cheer.

Edited December 6, 2010 by yeo99

[january 0]

@kerio - if you know about first anythings, they're usually not happy experiences!

But cheer up, things will get better from now.

[floppy 4]

If you meet a good contractor, he will tell you that it is impossible to finish the renovations within 1 or 2 month due to resource shortages. What I heard from my contractor is that he have to reject some customers now because he could not finish it on time. This is the correct attitude to do the business; not take it at the expense of customers.

This is so true. One of my shortlisted contractor actually turn me down and tell us to find someone else instead. He is only willing to do my business (on goodwill) if I couldn't find anyone else suitable. He rather lose a deal than not being able to deliver.

I've also came across several contractors who can accept any business in an indiscriminate manner. While I understand sales volume and the bottom-line is important to their business, I think we should question their ability to deliver. In my BTO project, there's a contractor who is only happy to let us know that more than 30 households (from about 200 or so who have gotten their keys) have signed up with them. Good luck to the customers, I hope the contractor delivers on time (although given the volume and festive season, I have my doubts). I think we can find several examples of these types of contractors in renotalk as well.

[Kerio 2]

It is true that now there are a too many jobs for the sub-contractors to handle. So, the work schedule can not be reliable at all. It is common to see one worker working in your house now because the sub-contractor can not provide more workers. The situation will not be likely to improve until CNY.....

....If you meet a good contractor, he will tell you that it is impossible to finish the renovations within 1 or 2 month due to resource shortages. What I heard from my contractor is that he have to reject some customers now because he could not finish it on time. This is the correct attitude to do the business; not take it at the expense of customers....

This is so true. One of my shortlisted contractor actually turn me down and tell us to find someone else instead. He is only willing to do my business (on goodwill) if I couldn't find anyone else suitable. He rather lose a deal than not being able to deliver.

I've also came across several contractors who can accept any business in an indiscriminate manner. While I understand sales volume and the bottom-line is important to their business, I think we should question their ability to deliver. In my BTO project, there's a contractor who is only happy to let us know that more than 30 households (from about 200 or so who have gotten their keys) have signed up with them. Good luck to the customers, I hope the contractor delivers on time (although given the volume and festive season, I have my doubts). I think we can find several examples of these types of contractors in renotalk as well.

I agree! I think it's important that ID companies learn not to bite off more than they can chew. If they reject a business, the worst that can happen is they don't earn that money. If they take it up and are unable to deliver or commit properly, all the negative reviews come out, damaging their reputation and inadvertantly causing greater damage to them in the long run. So frankly, it's a win-win situation: "You don't screw with us,we don't screw with you."

@kerio - if you know about first anythings, they're usually not happy experiences!

But cheer up, things will get better from now.

My first experience with French cuisine was delightful.. so was my first experience with a double quarter pounder *sulks* don't see why, hmph *grumble grumble*

Edited December 6, 2010 by Kerio

[Kerio 2]

Just dropped by quickly to take a look at progress; Aron and my ID's ceiling guys have apparently reached an accord, and they were working on the ceiling when I went by.

Also saw two porcelain bowls waiting to be installed in the living room.

Apart from that, there wasn't much going on.

- laminates not fixed

- carpentry not completed, bomb shelter feature wall not fixed

- false ceiling @ L-box area not fixed, big hole not plastered yet.

Presumably the second coat of paint will come after the plastering is done (would make sense), though still A LOT outstanding. Not sure if solid surface will come in on same day as glass, but hoping everything will fall nicely into place by thursday.

[porkypork 0]

This is so true. One of my shortlisted contractor actually turn me down and tell us to find someone else instead. He is only willing to do my business (on goodwill) if I couldn't find anyone else suitable. He rather lose a deal than not being able to deliver.

I've also came across several contractors who can accept any business in an indiscriminate manner. While I understand sales volume and the bottom-line is important to their business, I think we should question their ability to deliver. In my BTO project, there's a contractor who is only happy to let us know that more than 30 households (from about 200 or so who have gotten their keys) have signed up with them. Good luck to the customers, I hope the contractor delivers on time (although given the volume and festive season, I have my doubts). I think we can find several examples of these types of contractors in renotalk as well.

Yup...floppy..you are right...heard abt this contractor too...30 households....can't imagine that...really hope the contractor will be able to fullfilled their promises to their customers...otherwise it will also reflect very badly on them...

[porkypork 0]

Just dropped by quickly to take a look at progress; Aron and my ID's ceiling guys have apparently reached an accord, and they were working on the ceiling when I went by.

Also saw two porcelain bowls waiting to be installed in the living room.

Apart from that, there wasn't much going on.

- laminates not fixed

- carpentry not completed, bomb shelter feature wall not fixed

- false ceiling @ L-box area not fixed, big hole not plastered yet.

Presumably the second coat of paint will come after the plastering is done (would make sense), though still A LOT outstanding. Not sure if solid surface will come in on same day as glass, but hoping everything will fall nicely into place by thursday.

Hi Kerio...this will be a tough week for you ...but I'm sure you'll pull through it

At least some progress is being made today... hopefully your ID will be able understand the criticality of the situation and will buck up and prevent the things from blowing up further for their own good.

[Kerio 2]

Hi Kerio...this will be a tough week for you ...but I'm sure you'll pull through it

At least some progress is being made today... hopefully your ID will be able understand the criticality of the situation and will buck up and prevent the things from blowing up further for their own good.

Thanks porkypork!

I hope so too! Wife and I are giving her the last opportunity right now, and we're not escalating things yet since there seem to be progress. Plus, she's taken the initiative to suggest fixing some of the carpentry because some of it was badly done.

Moving in on the 10th is absolutely essential, since the wife's relatives have been telling us to hold a Christmas party/housewarming since we got the house in September. So from 10th to 20th, we can flag out rectifications, stress test the air con, carpentry, cooking equipment etc, and more importantly get used to the house so we won't be struggling to host a party of 30pax and not know where the spoons are. Thereafter we'll be hosting housewarmings for friends and my side of the relatives (after 49 days, due to my Grandmother's passing) and colleagues.

So whether the ID's work is good or bad will literally be shown to hundreds of people, just in the first month after Handover. So good or bad, it'll be spread among hundreds of people (conceivably more, since we have friends and relatives who share reviews quite widely). Talk about word-of-mouth advertising!

[cleong 1]

Thanks porkypork!

I hope so too! Wife and I are giving her the last opportunity right now, and we're not escalating things yet since there seem to be progress. Plus, she's taken the initiative to suggest fixing some of the carpentry because some of it was badly done.

Moving in on the 10th is absolutely essential, since the wife's relatives have been telling us to hold a Christmas party/housewarming since we got the house in September. So from 10th to 20th, we can flag out rectifications, stress test the air con, carpentry, cooking equipment etc, and more importantly get used to the house so we won't be struggling to host a party of 30pax and not know where the spoons are. Thereafter we'll be hosting housewarmings for friends and my side of the relatives (after 49 days, due to my Grandmother's passing) and colleagues.

So whether the ID's work is good or bad will literally be shown to hundreds of people, just in the first month after Handover. So good or bad, it'll be spread among hundreds of people (conceivably more, since we have friends and relatives who share reviews quite widely). Talk about word-of-mouth advertising!

If your ID has poor control over her people, things will still fall behind. Be prepared. 4 days is too short for you to move in.

Try not to let other people's desires spoil it for you. You might actually have to overlook qualitative issues in order to have that Christmas party in your home. But you and your wife are the ones that have to live with the problems for years to come. Haste makes waste.

[Kerio 2]

If your ID has poor control over her people, things will still fall behind. Be prepared. 4 days is too short for you to move in.

Try not to let other people's desires spoil it for you. You might actually have to overlook qualitative issues in order to have that Christmas party in your home. But you and your wife are the ones that have to live with the problems for years to come. Haste makes waste.

I trust the ID should be able to give us proper quality this time round, all things considered. Also, I think 2.5 months is acceptable as a time limit I guess? And in terms of quality, I think the ID has been scrutinising the quality recently, if it's not up to par, I trust she'll rectify asap! The reasons for which I'll explain in the following post!

Edited December 6, 2010 by Kerio

[cleong 1]

I trust the ID should be able to give us proper quality this time round, all things considered. Also, I think 2.5 months is acceptable as a time limit I guess? And in terms of quality, I think the ID has been scrutinising the quality recently , as have I - if it's not up to par, I trust she'll rectify asap! The reasons for which I'll explain in the followin post!

Perhaps my experience with my contractor has left me jaded. For example, my staircase was supposed to have finished last week. But because of one mis-cut glass panel, the completion has been pushed till Wednesday, in order for a replacement to be cut and fitted. One glitch and the completion is delayed.

2.5 months, if properly used from start to finish, is way more than enough for a brand new 4 room flat. But you've said "next week" a couple times on this thread already - I admire your optimism though.

[mae29 2]

Perhaps my experience with my contractor has left me jaded. For example, my staircase was supposed to have finished last week. But because of one mis-cut glass panel, the completion has been pushed till Wednesday, in order for a replacement to be cut and fitted. One glitch and the completion is delayed.

2.5 months, if properly used from start to finish, is way more than enough for a brand new 4 room flat. But you've said "next week" a couple times on this thread already - I admire your optimism though.

I also agreed that 2.5 months for reno to new 4 room flat is more than my old 5 rooms with major makeover! My hacking started on 25 Nov, and I ask my ID to handover by 26 Jan.

Today, while I was telling the tiler that we are not rushing, ID immediately proclaimed that tiling should finish according to schedule! Wow...he is serious in his work!

My ID is also the Project Manager & I am keeping my fingers crossed that all went well.

By the way, can you advise me the diameter of air con pipe? 16mm dia?

What is Class '0' thing that was mentioned?

[Kerio 2]

Perhaps my experience with my contractor has left me jaded. For example, my staircase was supposed to have finished last week. But because of one mis-cut glass panel, the completion has been pushed till Wednesday, in order for a replacement to be cut and fitted. One glitch and the completion is delayed.

2.5 months, if properly used from start to finish, is way more than enough for a brand new 4 room flat. But you've said "next week" a couple times on this thread already - I admire your optimism though.

Haha.. I actually understand if completion is delayed over glitches like that - if something is deemed of bad quality by the ID and it has to be fixed, hence delaying completion, no worries - like I said, it saves me the heartache of frisking out all the problems after I settle in. Badly cut glass panel, for instance - I read kumikotamago's post about the glass shattering - man, those are horrible injuries to suffer for bad construction. I'd rather they do it properly and save us more grief.

I've always maintained that as long as the work is done properly, delays here and there I can understand though.

Ha, I'm not that optimistic; I'm actually quite realistic. The "next week" part is well, irritating, but as long as things are done and handed over to us based on our deadline, no worries.

Updates, as promised:

Wife received some updates and explanations from our ID this evening, and I have to say, I'm impressed by a few things. Thus far I've only been impressed by 2 things done by our ID company: the laminates and the carpentry, and as evident, we've had some unpleasant experiences with the quality of work and timeliness. So what exactly is there to be impressed about?

1) Service Recovery & Speed of Recovery

I received a call some days back from someone, I had said, "claimed to be the Director". Turns out he was the Director of the company.

Ok, I have to admit I was rather shocked when I received the boss' phonecall. After all, he was supposed to be my Last Resort, not my First. Apparently he (or someone he knows) read renotalk and chanced by my posts on our reno journey.

His actions following his phonecall really made a big difference. Admittedly, some of the actions were rather drastic, and I do hope he doesn't come down too hard on our ID (ok, am I being soft here?), but I can say this for ArtXend now:

They really value their reputation.

After the phonecall, the boss started tracking the progress of our apartment - the plasterers and painters who have given us so much grief have been taken off the company's projects (it's renovation peak period. Painters and Plasterers are always in demand. They'll survive. Thanks for almost ruining my ceiling, my wall and my laminates), according to her update. Rectifications are speeding up in preparation for the handover, and our ID is moving things along at an unprecedented pace. Quality of work is being looked at closely, workers are marching along to our ID's beat, and things are, I must quite frankly say, moving along impeccably.

Although this would have been nice beforeour irritation got tickled into a frustration, which boiled over into rage, I can say this at least: There have been incidences of IDs simply ignoring customers or not even caring what happens to their reputation even after explicit complaints to management, and I was dreading that this would be the case here, but it clearly is not. ArtXend clearly values their reputation enough to take drastic action to address customer's problems, and take swift and appropriate action to address the issues without getting defensive.

In conclusion, Full Points for Service Recovery.

2) Customer Service

When we realised our posts had been read by the ID and company, we were in two minds about how to react, but that was mainly in reaction to how the ID would react when she called us. Would she shout at us and call us names? Would we have to shout back at her and have it turn into a nasty screaming match with all of us saying nasty things about each others' parents? Or would our ID come up with defensive explanations for everything and pin the blame on us, on the air-con installer, on HDB, and eventually on those darned leprechauns who mess up our fengshui? Or would she just disappear mysteriously?

Turns out, it was none of the above. The ID called up to clarify the finer points of renovation (some of which we actually were aware of, such as glass and carpentry being fabricated in the factory before being installed in the house), which was welcome, and then explained the reasons for the delays and some of the problems she had faced which may have inevitably led to delays. We were glad for the explanation, and that she was finally pushing things along.

To be honest, we're just glad work is now going on smoothly, and we can get updates and see progress in the house. Naturally, things like HDB, air-con installer etc did come up in the discussion, but she did take personal responsibility, which we find admirable. One of the first things I learnt as a government employee is this - when something bad happens in your area of work, don't give excuses, don't try to explain - take corrective action and take responsibility.

We do think she handled the situation very well, considering the exchange could have been significantly more awkward. And she talked to us nicely even though we were the direct cause for her boss coming down hard on her for our complaints. And like what we said from the very first few posts - we find her pleasant to work with.

With these thoughts in mind, perhaps the key messages for this lengthy, wordy post are:

a) I can't say ArtXend is highly recommended, but from this incident, we can tell that they value their reputation and take their customer's feedback seriously. The Director could easily have dismissed my complaints, and the ID could have easily disappeared, like all the horror stories we hear; but they didn't. They took swift corrective action, and did so responsibly. No threats of "I'll piss in your laminates you wanker" or "Horrible deeds shall be done unto your WIW, pisspot" - just a contrite explanation, and prompt action. Commendable, to say the least. I think this shows integrity. Worth considering if you're considering renovation works, though some pre-reno work would need to be done - setting up schedules, accounting for HDB rectifications, etc.

b) We do hope the management of the company won't punish the ID - she probably had too much to handle, or the workers really played her out. In any case, she handled this case well, and we think she did well in improving the state of affairs and explaining things to us clearly.

c) I hope my posts don't make me sound overbearing, because I really am a very nice person usually sometimes.

More updates soon.