erwin123

Frequently Asked Questions Q: Can I use cove lighting with fan, is there a shadow? A: I have cove lighting in a few rooms including living room. There is no noticeable shadow whether the fan is on or off. As long as you give the cove light "space" to bounce off the ceiling then there shouldn't be a shadow. Q: Do you need to clean the "cove"? A: Dust may gather there, so occasional vaccuming/wiping may be necessary. I don't think that dust gathering in the cove makes the room any dirtier (I have a Dylos Air Quality meter to measure room dust levels http://www.dylosproducts.com/ - those with allegeries/respiratory problems may want to measure their room dust levels)

When renovating your home, one of the big decisions you have to make concerns lighting. There are many guides on the internet to explain to you what T5, T8, PLC etc mean, so I won't try to duplicate them. My aim is to suggest the lighting arrangements you might find suitable for your home. (1) Cove lighting. Lights are placed in a gap in the false ceiling and the lighting lights the room by bouncing off the ceiling and possibly the walls. This is soft, indirect light. Most of my rooms have cove lighting as I like the effect. Pros: Soft, diffuse, indirect lighting. Cons: May not be bright enough by itself for task work and will have to be supplemented by other lights. Also, cove lighting is sort of "boring" as its very diffuse (frankly, I find a 100% PLC downlight arrangement even more boring than cove lighting), so other lights add interest. Bulb to use: T5 fluorescent are idea. LED is a waste of money in this situation and is really not brighter than T5. (2) PLC downlight This term in renotalk is used to refer to circular/square downlights (see www.lightings.com.sg etc for example), using 2 x 13w or 2 x 18w bulbs in a single enclosure. If you want to light a particular area in the room with an unobtrusive ceiling fixture, this is "cheap" and "good"... but can be overused. If there are too many of these in the ceiling, you might get dazzled each time you look at the ceiling. The double bulb fixtures are not particularly efficient (stuff 2 18w bulbs into a small enclosure with a small aperture for light to escape....) For 36w, you can get a lot more light with T5 bulbs (but ugly) or LED. Pro: Cheap & Good Con: Don't overuse them. Double bulb versions are especially inefficient in terms of wattage versus light output. (3) MR16 LED downlights (12v GU5.3) LED downlights have dropped in price and I have found one Ebay seller that sells good quality Cree LEDs (furthermore can choose 45 or 60 degree beam angle), so I'm happy. These are primarily spotlights meant to light a particular area. Their narrow beam means that they may not be so glaring unless the spot is pointed directly at you. I use them to add interest to a room that is lit by diffuse cove lighting. You can usually tilt and rotate MR16 ceilng fixtures so there's some flexibility in how to light your room. Pros: Cool running, space saving, I prefer the colour rendition of warm white led to regular halogens which I find too yellow. Cons: Needs transformer (240v versions super rare) - a transformer is never 100% efficient so it affects power consumption. (4) GU10 LED downlights 230v GU10 LEDs (IKEA sells them as quite a few IKEA lights take GU10, but I don't like the IKEA bulb 38 degree beam angle - get 45 or 60 degree beam GU10 from ebay)do not need a transformer and perform similar to the MR16 GU5.3 LEDs. GU10s appear to come in two heights, the shorter one is the one you see in IKEA in about 6cm, and the taller one is something like 9cm Their fixtures need a bit more space (but not as much as PLC) so I do like GU10s. There is also a Philips fluorescent 9cm GU10 9w bulb that has a 120 degree beam angle that bathes the room in a warm glow. Aesthetically more pleasing and as bright as a single 13w PLC. Pro: Same pros as Mr16 LED + separate transformer not needed. Cons: takes up slightly more space (5) Ceiling fixtures - hanging Lampshades / Pendants The finishing touch to many rooms is the installation of a ceiling fixture like a lampshade/pendant lamp. It adds the little extra to the room and doesn't take up any floor space since it's ceiling mounted. But note that if you mount it too high up, it basically acts like a ceiling fixture but what's the point. The idea is to place the light lower (that's why they supply you so much wire...) so that you don't see the bulb but only the lampshade (unless you are seated/lying down). This of course means that you can't place the light on corridors where people's can knock into it. You can place it above your dining table, or in the corners of rooms. Pros: Adds interest to the room, gives a bit of supplemental lighting, eg: over a dining table. Cons: Not intended as a main light, so don't put in too bright a bulb. (6) Wall mounted spotlights I am a big fan of 2 of IKEA's wall mounted spotlights. I use these wall mounted spotlights as task lighting for reading/studying etc. Being wall mounted, they save desk space. The Beryl is so lightweight that I actually mounted one on the side of a Billy Bookcase, simply by driving in a small nail in the bookcase side and hooking the light on it (I also put some double sided tape to secure it further). IKEA: Beryll $35 MR16. Light enough to mount on bookcase side. Con is that it can only take smaller 3-4w MR16 LED, not the 7-9w ones which are a bit bigger. TRAL $29 GU10. More solidly built and more rotation options. Can take 9w GU10 LED. added (7) LED lighting strips I'm sure you've seen shops selling strips of LED lights with a sticker backing that you can stick anywhere. Of course, they look quite ugly, you can see the chips and soldering, so you want to put these in places where they cannot be seen. I have a wall mounted TV console (for my amp and speakers - the TV is wall mounted), so the TV console is supposed to be 'floating'. I put an LED strip under the console. When the room lights are off, and watching TV, the LED strip sort of makes the console 'float' (if you have a good imagination) and gives the room some light. I've seen quite a few shops, eg: Sim Lim Tower, selling them, and they can also be purchased from Ebay. You can purchase IR remote controllers for less than $10 (often bundled together) to control the lights and even change colours. The 2 terms you have to learn when buying this are "5050" and "3528" which refers to the LED chipset, 5050 strips are brighter and use more electricity. Also note the strips may have different numbers of chips per metre. If you see something in ebay that looks cheaper, maybe it has fewer chips per metre. Pro: very slim strip, easy to mount. dimmable, remote controllable. Con: Ugly, used in 'hidden application', 5m of 5050 (300 chips), uses 50w. T5 is still brighter watt for watt. (8) Final tips. Always ask your contractor for more light switches, not just one switch turn on every single living room light. Take photographs of the wiring arrangements of the false ceiling before they close up the false ceiling. Make sure the wiring arrangement makes it easy for you to add additional lights. My contractor wired the false ceilings so nicely that it was simple for me to DIY add extra lights where I needed them. (Using a holesaw is not difficult )

I used a mixture of PLC and MR16 LED downlights in my major reno. On hindsight, I would have substituted some of the PLC downlights with the Philips 59600 9w GX5.3 downlight. The ability to tilt and rotate would be very useful in some areas. To me, a 9w GX5.3 downlight seems brighter than a 13w PLC downlight. http://www.lightings.com.sg/downlights.html There's also this:

I have measured my 3.5w and 4w Opitled/Philips MR16/GU10 LEDs with a spotmeter and confirm their brightness is the same as 20w MR16/GU10 Halogen but with narrower beam angle. My current favourite LED bulbs are 3x3w CREE MR16/GU10 with 60 degree beam angle (running at 6.5w), bought from Ebay. They are roughly equivalent to 35w Halogen. My first round of installation I used Optiled and Philips Master but haven't found Philips Master worth the premium price. The ones from Ebay are just as good/better in terms of colour rendition and reliability so far.

Hi, I did a full reno last year and have installed various LED lights in MR16 and GU10 fittings. Brightness. I have measured with my camera's spot meter and this is a safe bet: 20w halogen = "4w" LED 4 x 1w chips / 3 x 2w chips 35w halogen = "7w" LED 4 x 2w chips 50w halogen slightly brighter than "9w" LED 3 x 3w chips I say "4/7/9w" in inverted commas because they may be driven at a lower wattage. For example, think the Philips 7w is 4x2w chips. However, the beam angle of most LEDs is in the 30-45 degree range, less than a regular halogen, in other words LEDs brightness cheats a little bit by having narrower beam angle. In some applications, you may want to install 60 degree beam angle LEDs, but these are no easy to find in Singapore - ebay is your answer! Because I like to experiment, my GU10/MR16s are from Choo Chiang (Optiled 3.5w and 5w versions), Philips Master 4w and 7w versions, and my latest favourite from Ebayer Smartopled 3 x 3w CREE because their default beam angle is 45 and seems wider than the 30-38 degree of some locally available LEDs and you can also ask them for 60 degree beam angle. But things to note are some MR16 LEDs may be 'oversized. I have no problem with 3x3w CREEs in my ceiling downlights fixtures, but for an IKEA MR16 spotlight I have, the 3x3w are a few mm too tall and only regular 4w opitleds fit....

I have installed a few pieces of Philips lighting and yes they are good quality - installed in dining, study, balcony. Just for curiosity I also installed one of their expensive double LED adjustable ceiling spot lights as a task lamp and I do like the quality of the 'white' light, it is 'whiter' than some of the no-brand LED lights on the market. I have 2 other pieces in my balcony that are rated water resistant. They get rain spray plus hours of sun, and after 1 year they still look good as new. I plan to get some of their downlights and DIY install them as the fit is pretty good (money saved in paying for electrician can go towards getting higher quality fittings like Philips). The only negative point is that the price is high - can get cheaper overseas. ledworks.sg used to have 10% off the list price not sure if they do so now.

Thought I would complete this thread with a few more photos: A little photo of the family computer room. I'm very happy with the concealed wiring channel that runs along the rear as it really reduces (umm hides) the cable clutter. living room. I actually have 2 sets of lights. 10 x 4ft T5 cool white in cove, and warm white downlights, plus floor lamp etc, so that I can light the room with either cool or warm white. My only regret now that I chose a mixture of PLC downlights and LED downlights as it was too expensive to go 100% LED. Now if I had the choice, I would go 100% LED downlights as the flexibility of a focused and adjustable beam is very useful.

i found this thread using google to search the site. Thanks very much. I settled on Yee Sin to do one L-shaped unit and one stand-alone unit. I was very impressed with their professionaisml. (I had just finished a major home renovation so I have had my share of professional and not so professional vendors, so I've seen both types). After i faxed them my sketches, they called me to discuss and then gave me a prompt quote. One day before they were due to come, they called to confirm. Furthermore on the day itself, they came on time, installed very fast, smoothly, no mess. I'm very satisfied with their product as well. http://www.yee-sin.com/

Thanks for the group buy lobang. With the group discount, the quote was cheaper than all the other quotes I received. The workers were also very professional in their job and the windows look good. I recommend this company again, as long as you can get a group buy discount

yup, www.ledworks.sg

Yup direct replacement possible. But if you google there is some warning that low wattage LED may not be compatible with electronic transformer because of low wattage. The solution, if you're worried, is to buy transformer+MR16 at the same shop. But if you already have MR16 fixture and don't know whether transformer compatible, you can improve your chances by using an LED MR16 with higher wattage. Here are 7w Philips MR16 LED: With high wattage (if you run 7w x 3 = 21w, virtually all regular 12v transformers are compatible)

Renovation completed, just a last picture of the living room balcony. Thank you to renotalk for all the useful info.

the disadvantage of the panasonic is that its remote control 'beam' has a very narrow angle compared to Mitsuhbishi and Sanyo. I often have to point the panasonic control at the unit to control it whereas my mitsubishi, i can use the control anywhere in the room.

the problem with group buy is that if there are defects how to rectify - have to send back to China? But if the actual savings for swan is more than $100 (i.e GST/freight+chari), I would be interested in getting another and take my chances. But Egg more risky, more complicated chair, more things can go wrong (eg: the lever can come off... )

I have a mix of downlight in L box and cove lighting. Can switch on either or both depending on how much light is needed, similar to what an earlier poster has as well. I don't have ceiling/pendant lighting in living room as I am using ceiling fan.