4 Different Experiences

[Wahyu 0]

First off, NO COMPANY or ID Name will be EVER given to any requests. They may be on my blacklist but I do believe they deserve a 2nd chance.

However, the most important message here is, don't just go blindly with one ID because everyone is giving him or her the thumbs up. The ID that knows your needs, work with passion and have your interests at heart is what you should be looking for, not the best ID people are talking about. Surely a customer with 100k budget will give praise to any ID (any ID who did a screwed up job with a 100k budget is committing suicide).

The same ID might have a different approach to low budget customer. So basically, do the hard grind and talk to as many ID as possible until you find the one you are most comfortable with.

VENUE: ID place somewhere in Serangoon area.

Forum Ratings: GOOD with many positive comments.

Decision: Let's check it out!

Summary:

Attended by one ID, after having a brief discussion. I know he's new or an understudy, he don't even know if toilet or kitchen floor tiles are hackable or not. Spent about 30mins and his drawings were messy but I am nice and everyone was a newbie once, so I played along. Then the ID I made appointment with came and the first thing he did after taking a look at the sketches were negative remarks like "why like this, why draw like this". IMO, dissing a fellow colleague in front of potential customers is like showing your dirty laundry to public. He wrapped it up with "I'll email you the quote based on the sketches and notes".

Got the call from the main ID and told me to go down. So what about the email quote? "It's done, but if you come over, I can explain to you in details and finalize it". Basic sales tactic, let's see what's he got .

Pulled out the drawings and quotes, NOW try imagine yourself spending an hour talking to your spouse about your new car or hairdo and then he/she tells you "yeah, the pictures taken were very nice". The redone layout sketches and quote left out at least 70% of the things I've mentioned on the first visit and everything listed was just the basic package with a few variations. So everything have to start from step 1 again, TMD waste time. From a biz point of view, this ID is incurring losses even before he getting in any customer.

After another hour of repeating what was said on the first visit. The ID try to impress us with "3D" drawings of his designs. Not that it's a bad thing, every ID do that now (at least most). It's the way he present it that make it look real bad. I have to say the designs are pretty standard to what the market already is churning out. "Look at all these unique designs I did for my customers!". After a minute or so, it turned out to be the same 3-6 designs in various different color schemes. Imagine how much time he saved himself and the poor customers who bought his designs thinking it's UNIQUE!!!! I say honesty is the best and surely "Here's a few designs I did in various color schemes to allow my customers to have the options of seeing different asepct their designs in dolors." will work much better. While it all means the same thing of trying to impress a potential customer, how he said it will contribute his success rate.

Overhead this from one of the ID talking to his customers. "WAH, I did so many things for your house and I can't bring people to see the house?". If I go high and low for you to get you that dream ferrari, can I bring people over and ride in it?

Next to the closing deal sales pitch.

"Company going GST soon, sign early so can avoid 7% extra!". This one.....is OLD. I am sure those of you who sign on that dotted line heard this before .

Question for all: How come they haven't GST yet till now?!?!?!?

FOC this and that. Cheap stuff I understand. FOC things like aircon system, stoves etc etc ain't FOC. You are paying for it in the quote hidden somewhere but not written and NOT OFFER unless you haven't taken the bait. If they can offer things like these as FOC. You are probably listed as a carrot cake in their books.

Conclusion:

Bad salesman trying to pass off as an ID.

VENUE: ID place somewhere in IMM.

Forum Ratings: GOOD with a few positive comments.

Decision: Let's check it out!

Summary:

Went straight for their booklet featuring pictures of their show flats. ID approached us, small conversation and dead silence(He's not confident). So I go "hey, y not let's discuss about it in more detail inside"(kinda of sad that it's the potential customer who said it).

Usual layout discussions, very good listener and shows initiative with on the spot sketches of ideas from both parties. Offer the package and quote for anything that's not listed. So far so good. Session end with a quote within the week.

2nd visit turns out to be a complete flip of the coin. Quotes are on the high side. Carpentry measurements are in excess. Drawing is decent but left out the basic things. When pointed out, "oh the doors" "oh the floor" "oh the blah blah blah". With so many things left out and the quote is near the budget limit, that's a warning sign. The new quote is OVER THE LIMIT. Point out to him that many things in the package are not in the quote and he came up with "this is a new package i came up for you". SO WHAT HAPPEN to our original basic package + things that are not listed quote?????

Got him to redo the whole thing based on the original "basic package + things that aren't listed" deal. Turns out the quote is 7k lower and you can see him struggling to try to make quote go higher. In the end still fail.

So he came up with, if you are using the basic package...the tiles and laminate will only be in a few color ranges....this is bull****....a few color range!?!? come on, surely u can do better than that.

Oh and check this out "the tiles used in the basic package is only $4dollar, the one I quoted you are $16" Why the **** you wanna give me a $16 dollar tile without even asking me if I want a $16 tile!!!

Obviously he's trying to cover his OVER THE LIMIT quotes.

Next come the FOCs. ITEM A B and C. After some pressing, Item A cost $900, Item B cost $1000. So I say ok...if I take A and B as FOC...quote me Item C.......$1800!!! So I wait and see if he'll do the right thing...unfortunately he write Item C into the quotation. Anyone with a decent brain will take B and C and pay for A.

Come the GST part again...."my company 2moro start GST liao, if u sign now can siam 7% leh". I say I need to consider again. "ok, if u sign after 2moro, I'll let the boss know now so we can wavie the GST". As per previous ID place......"Y aren't they into GST yet??????!?!?!?"

"So what is it that you won't sign now?" Isn't it obvious enough already, you can't sell if you don't have what it takes to sell.

Conclusion

Creative ID but lacks integrity.

VENUE: My new unit (On site contractor who happens to pass by)

Forum Ratings: Non

Decision: Let's check it out!

Summary:

Your typical contractor uncle. EVERYTHING CAN! NO PROBLEM! LIKE THIS and THIS.....SIBEI SUI ONE! LOOK AT MY DESIGNS. I looked and saw a lot of different ID houses names on the designs. Quote is OMG SUI also.

Bomb shelter + shoe rack = 1600......without shoe rack leh??? also 1600...... SUI SUI BUEY JAO ZUI.

CONCLUSION

Contractor trying to pass himself off as an ID.

VENUE: ID place somewhere in UBI/BEDOK area.

Forum Ratings: GOOD with a few positive comments.

Decision: Let's check it out!

Summary:

Started off with a quick walkthrough of the showroom getting us familiar with the various popular trends in renovation. Straight to the point, discussions, ideas layout done. Quote in a few days.

Professional so far.

2nd meeting. He listed out the things we can do without as optional in case we have a budget to meet and he didn't even ask for our budget during the first meeting. Changes to the original layout were made. He gave us a breakdown on the entire process from signing on the dotted line to the handing over of keys. Did the usual "3D" impressions and I have to say his designs really spam over a good range of themes.

In the end, his quote was the most expansive among the 4 we been to but the things the things that we manage to get done in return is much much more than what the other 3 could offer. Went through the contract again thoroughly and after some more questions. I decide this is the ID we'll sign with.

This is the best part. He just said,"NO GST" even though the company TnC there writes "GST soon". At least someone is smart enough to move with times

Conclusion

No bull**** straight to the point ID who's creative and has a lot of initiatives. No doubt he try to pull a few quick $$$ in the quote but hey everyone got to make a living.

Would like to visit a few more ID places but due to time constraint, I'll put my bets on the this gambling table.

[redknapp39 0]

I agree with ur point on GST. Either they r true or some kind of scare tactics. So, who's ur confirmed ID? (***** / Summit) Hee hee. Just guessing

[Starscream 0]

Thanks Wahyu, very nice read for a Wednesday morning

I think IDs are like what someone mentioned in this forum, not really IDs but more like fast copycat learners from others with little original creativity.

[yokine9a 1]

Also curious to know who passed the test and became your confirmed ID

Black listed names cannot tell, good ones can share share mah

[SmartFool 0]

Also curious to know who passed the test and became your confirmed ID

Black listed names cannot tell, good ones can share share mah

Thanks for the clear review

Agree with the point that everybody needs to make a living

When you doing your place?

Seems like you in a rush too

was wondering actually y u only went to this 3 particular places

can also say what your quote encompassed?

am currently looking for references

thanks

Edited April 30, 2008 by SmartFool

[simpleguy80 0]

Ya lor share share. Wan to hear who pass ur test? Baroque? Summit? *****? *****?

[redknapp39 0]

For me, i've been to 19 IDs. Currently, only 2-3 have passed so many tests. Hope to finalise my ID in 1 weeks time.

[BlueFly 0]

Enjoyed yr piece, and agreed with your observations, except i think you are too kind with yr comment that "everybody needs a living."

for those who passed themsevles off as ids, contractors, etc when obviously they knew nothing abt the way things work or are learning-on-the-job, that does not pass muster with me.

why should we pay good money to educate them? when they make mistakes it is at our expense. renovation is not like buying furniture (eg shaky joints, can rectify), going for a meal (eg lousy cook, can leave it), etc. if the reno is bad it is too costly to redo or replace or worse, when the id refused to settle the issues, and you hv to live with the poor renovation, probably for a long time.

i expect them to learn the trade first, be knowledgeable, or even go to school if necessary.

the firm that employs them shld put them on the job to learn for 6 months, then apprentice to an experienced id for another 6. only after the firm has passed n graded the newbie shld he be allowed to work with clients of his own.

unfortunately this is not the way the industry works.

each id is an independent business person, he seeks out contracts and gives a cut to the firm on which he depends for the various hdb licenses, suppliers credit, etc. his hewbies in turn has to give him and the firm a cut.

this is a lucrative industry, bec there is huge variation in prices for a piece of job, depending on how hungry the id is. let's not go into that here.

i agree we shld give one a second chance, provided he is honest. One who passes himself off as an id when he is obviously learning the ropes is simply not honest.

Thank you for sharing.

Edited April 30, 2008 by BlueFly

[MLR 0]

Hi

Thanks for sharing.

Once again, Bluefly said it all.... jus been down that road. We ended with a reno co that didn't push us to take any package with useless freebies, didn't come up fancy 3Ds... instead he actually listen to what we want and gave/still giving constructive/honest suggestions. They do provide id services if we need, and told us up front that its chargeable. HONESTY

[SmartFool 0]

Hi

Thanks for sharing.

Once again, Bluefly said it all.... jus been down that road. We ended with a reno co that didn't push us to take any package with useless freebies, didn't come up fancy 3Ds... instead he actually listen to what we want and gave/still giving constructive/honest suggestions. They do provide id services if we need, and told us up front that its chargeable. HONESTY

Hi MLR

if contractor, hows the quality of his workmanship?

Possible to maybe provide a list of his charges?

thanks

[h4happy 1]

My 2 cent worth...

That is only 1st part of neg. with id/contractors.

The 2nd part, you still need to see their worksmanship and a few showflats (not one or two), currently renovating and near completion.

And will be a bonus if can speak and talk to the owner.

I placed workmanship above all the 3d design they give.

[tension_z 0]

true, never skip the workmanship step.

[Wahyu 0]

Workmanship, it's a gamble, you can reduce the chances but you can never be 100% sure.

As we all know, it's only economical to plan and work on a big scale basis. Most firms tend to have a few subcontractors who in turn are subcontractors to other firms. A couple might have their own specialize teams but usually specialize usually means $$$.

etc.

A flooring team will prolly work on this flooring in the morning and move on to another unit somewhere later and come back to finish up later. If there's multiple units in the same area....do the maths

Or the factory has a new batch of "FOREIGN TALENTS", who are tasked to make your cabinet!

Or the regular electrician is getting married, so in order to meet your schedule....a temp or new guy is tasked to take over.

Or "Foreign Talent A" did a perfecto on the floor for you living room but he has to go back due to permit issues and "Foreign Talent B" is brought in FRESH from Country X to continue...see where I am going?

The factors involved are literally infinite.

It really depends on which team or individual that is tasked at the moment. It also depends on workload as well. While it's good to go for the HOT ID atm...but he's only human...you can't expect him to be covering all your bases if everyone is getting their unit done by him. In my opinion, if you find a good one...make sure he's done with yours before you recommend to others...at least you know u'll get yours done properly and the ID won't be too distracted . It might seem selfish but it's your home, your call.

There's a few ways to reduce the chances you end up with poor workmanship finishes...

1) Be there from day 1 to day handover

2) Do all your research on your ID or contractor, if their reviews are usually plus, it usually is...but best to make sure yourself. Since he's the one who ultimately will make the call to redo or replace any poor jobs, having a trustworthy ID is a must. Unfortunately, you have to rely on referral mostly on this.

3) Be thick skin and keep bugging him/her till you get it done. It's your money, you have every right to get it done the way it was suppose to be in the contract.

4) Be realistic. If you are paying $200 for a console....you can't expect it to look like a million dollar.

There's probably a million more tips from all you people here....will be nice to see what tips you guys got too.

Unfortunately for us, the industry here always have the upper hand. Look at the contract TnC....they cover their bases left and right. We only got CASE and this forum which I think is pretty good as consumers can gather around and share their experiences and insights with each other. Pretty sure most of the IDs pop by to check it out too, how they use this is another matter though .

Just my 2cents. Like I said, I am gambling too on my ID, can only move forward now come **** or high water.

[Yang Guo 7]

Workmanship, it's a gamble, you can reduce the chances but you can never be 100% sure.

agree totally with you

[h4happy 1]

Yeah, just pray hard that your confirmed id/contractors make your dream comes true. Plus and minus....that's the fact. Cannot get 100% good stuff. Be firm and ask if you are in doubts, ask until they rectify and ask until they get the jobs done. Afterall, the owners must feel comfortable and make sure the money is well spend. I am talking about 5 figures amount lah.