Solar Power

[watchthewaves 0]

I'd like to hear from those who have installed photovoltaic (PV) (aka solar power) solutions for their homes, whether just the water heater type or for general electricity supply (grid-connected or battery storage).

What was the installation and usage experience like? (installation cost, problems; electricity savings, maintenance problems; etc)

Would you recommend the installer?

Please post or PM me.

Thanks.

[bepgof 20]

I'd like to hear from those who have installed photovoltaic (PV) (aka solar power) solutions for their homes, whether just the water heater type or for general electricity supply (grid-connected or battery storage).

What was the installation and usage experience like? (installation cost, problems; electricity savings, maintenance problems; etc)

Would you recommend the installer?

Please post or PM me.

Thanks.

My house installed no solar panel. I'm in energy trade, dealing with solar batteries. Solar World(Jln Besar) is one of the leaders in Singapore providing such (project base, no individual).

PV solar needs to connect to a controller to provide constant voltage with variations of sun's radiation. A battery bank (12V, 24V, 110V, 220V) is connected to the controller unit to provide the DC power backup in case of no sunlight. During daytime, batteries are charged up and provide remaing power to power up an inverter which converter DC to AC. The AC is connected to the heating element.

Setup cost is super high, maintenance (battery, say 10 year design life, usually can last (service life) about 5 yrs, depending much on the ambience temperature, daily cycles). Imagine the cost of:

1. Solar panel

2. Controller

3. Inverter

4. Reservoir with heater built-in

5. Installation

6. Maintenance (VRLA battery, 24V, 1000AHC10, 10 yr design life), 5 yr replace one set

Econonically not feasible to use PV to provide hot water! Instead,

Use reservior (hugh expose area to receive sunlight) mounted on roof with electric pump and sesor unit. Once sense water reach certain preset temp, pump work, send "water on rooftop" to be stored at another reservoir/container with heat insulation capabilty - connect to bi-tape head, then to shower head.....more cost-effective, but need space!

FYI, HDB is experimenting LED lights at void deck in jurong, connected to PV panel & battery...Planting plants(horizontally) outside building to "block" radiation heat from sun.... are the trends. Plants' root "stuck" with membrance circulated with liquid fertilizer(solution with different % of N, P, K)

Simple calculation here:

1. Say, yr house fitted you 2 x 2000w instant heater, each operate 1hr aday.

2. Usage per day = 4000wh, 30 days = 120,000wh.

3. PUB charge 1wh =?

4. Work out 5yr's bill.

Edited July 24, 2010 by bepgof

[yoongf 11]

If building a house in the middle of nowhere ... no powergrid connection, then a solar powered home can justify the initial cost. If electrical infrastructure already in place, then just compare initial cost vs. savings during payback period .. sure not worth it.

Dun need to consider the cost of the initial setup, the cost of the 1 set of replacement battery already not worth the savings in electricity. Need to design the whole house to operated on low voltage systems like LED to get a reasonably cost effective batt.

[bepgof 20]

Indonesian's mobile lines receive best reception during noon, you know why? Down in the morning and evening and night.

Edited July 24, 2010 by bepgof

[maha22 0]

The Solar Power Fencing gives a sharp short but a safe shock and created psychological fear, against any tampering. The alarm incorporated in the system gets activated and alert the inmates of the protected area. These are tailor made fences and can be designed according to customer needs and site condition.

I had got my solar power fencing system done from Crown Solar Power Fencing System about 3 years back, which is still working absolutely fine with very less maintenance cost. Here's the site address for more information

=================

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Florida Marble Polishing

[watchthewaves 0]

Thanks bepgof, yoongf, for your feedback.

I'm not looking at a system with battery backup, but a grid connected one, so battery cost is not an issue. The concern is the high installation cost and when the breakeven point is.

I'm also looking into energy efficient articles in the home, eg:

- Lighting system - considering LEDs, but again, high initial cost. Dunno whether worth it or to simply go with the current energy saver tubes/bulbs.

- Induction hob instead of gas hob.

maha22,

Site address missing from your post?

[bepgof 20]

Thanks bepgof, yoongf, for your feedback.

I'm not looking at a system with battery backup, but a grid connected one, so battery cost is not an issue. The concern is the high installation cost and when the breakeven point is.

I'm also looking into energy efficient articles in the home, eg:

- Lighting system - considering LEDs, but again, high initial cost. Dunno whether worth it or to simply go with the current energy saver tubes/bulbs.

- Induction hob instead of gas hob.

maha22,

Site address missing from your post?

Har? Grid type lagi expensive! Need smart electronic AC switches to switch between grid & solar o/p, no energy storage feature. I've been using a charger/discharge, when battery discharge, the discharger converts energy to AC, synchronise with mains and feed back to the grid (power grid gains, I lose) some more very dangerous - if the switching no good, anytime can cause short circuit to the mains grid and disturb others(Power grid may ask me to pay for the damage).

I worked in mrt for 5 yrs, the trains's DC shunt motors (750Vdc) become a generator when braking & feed power back into 3rd trail, but has caused much hormonics problems, those computer screens at the station ZZZZZZ. When train starts, draws abt 2000Adc, also caused the screens to ZZZZZZ. I think the braking energy feed back feature should have been disabled already.

I have a flexible solar panel (can roll up), 900mA, 17Vdc, bought abt 2 years back, cost me ~ $350, I use that to charge lithum-polymer batteries at fields while I become a RC pilot, still need a 12V battery to connect panel's o/p for stability = store energy while sun is hot, discharge energy to charge up li-po battery while sun being covered up by clouds...Belok link may give u some clues.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/StartHere/GR...llparkCost.html

Edited August 6, 2010 by bepgof

[watchthewaves 0]

Har? Grid type lagi expensive! Need smart electronic AC switches to switch between grid & solar o/p, no energy storage feature. I've been using a charger/discharge, when battery discharge, the discharger converts energy to AC, synchronise with mains and feed back to the grid (power grid gains, I lose) some more very dangerous - if the switching no good, anytime can cause short circuit to the mains grid and disturb others(Power grid may ask me to pay for the damage).

I worked in mrt for 5 yrs, the trains's DC shunt motors (750Vdc) become a generator when braking & feed power back into 3rd trail, but has caused much hormonics problems, those computer screens at the station ZZZZZZ. When train starts, draws abt 2000Adc, also caused the screens to ZZZZZZ. I think the braking energy feed back feature should have been disabled already.

I have a flexible solar panel (can roll up), 900mA, 17Vdc, bought abt 2 years back, cost me ~ $350, I use that to charge lithum-polymer batteries at fields while I become a RC pilot, still need a 12V battery to connect panel's o/p for stability = store energy while sun is hot, discharge energy to charge up li-po battery while sun being covered up by clouds...Belok link may give u some clues.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/StartHere/GR...llparkCost.html

Thanks for sharing your experience. Very good learning for me. Thanks for the link too. Yes, I am aware of the need to switch if grid connected. But unless I understand wrongly, there are established brands on the market for these inverters that allow connection to the grid. And the feed in to the grid is not really a loss to you because you are selling the power back to the grid. The advantage I see is that in the day, when home power consumption is typically low, excess electricity is sold to the grid. And in the evening/night, when power consumption is up and the panels are not producing electricity, you take power from the grid like everyone else.

But set up cost lah .... haiz. Somemore other countries have incentives/rebates for homeowners, but not here apparently. No incentive to go green.

[bepgof 20]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Very good learning for me. Thanks for the link too. Yes, I am aware of the need to switch if grid connected. But unless I understand wrongly, there are established brands on the market for these inverters that allow connection to the grid. And the feed in to the grid is not really a loss to you because you are selling the power back to the grid. The advantage I see is that in the day, when home power consumption is typically low, excess electricity is sold to the grid. And in the evening/night, when power consumption is up and the panels are not producing electricity, you take power from the grid like everyone else.

But set up cost lah .... haiz. Somemore other countries have incentives/rebates for homeowners, but not here apparently. No incentive to go green.

"Sell power back to grid"?? Want to spoil the Kwh meter installed by PUB, by injecting reversing eddy current to slow down or reverse the disc rotation? Unless install with a much more complex metering, which I think, I won't be able to see this in my generation.

Presently, the most economical system still the unman "solar house" - consist of solar panel, voltage regualtor, and dc battery. Indonesia, India, Sarawak.... I come across 1 project in Isreal with battery/controller system being housed undegrounded because of the high heat during days, battery can't take it.

Will take Singapore quite some years to observe how the leader countries utilise these systems before implementing, would properly another 10 years or so. HDB is experimenting off-grid system to supply power to those common area lighting, will take a few years to reach a conclusion.

Edited August 6, 2010 by bepgof

[watchthewaves 0]

"Sell power back to grid"?? Want to spoil the Kwh meter installed by PUB, by injecting reversing eddy current to slow down or reverse the disc rotation? Unless install with a much more complex metering, which I think, I won't be able to see this in my generation.

Presently, the most economical system still the unman "solar house" - consist of solar panel, voltage regualtor, and dc battery. Indonesia, India, Sarawak.... I come across 1 project in Isreal with battery/controller system being housed undegrounded because of the high heat during days, battery can't take it.

Will take Singapore quite some years to observe how the leader countries utilise these systems before implementing, would properly another 10 years or so. HDB is experimenting off-grid system to supply power to those common area lighting, will take a few years to reach a conclusion.

Need to install another meter for it. It's being done now already. Maybe you want to google and read up on it. Feed in tariffs and energy market company.

[kardtoon 0]

Need to install another meter for it. It's being done now already. Maybe you want to google and read up on it. Feed in tariffs and energy market company.

I tried googling but couldn't find where this is being done in Singapore. Can you share the link on the equipment and pub link where this can be done? I'm interested to check this out for my house.

[bepgof 20]

I tried googling but couldn't find where this is being done in Singapore. Can you share the link on the equipment and pub link where this can be done? I'm interested to check this out for my house.

Power providers can close shop liao if can sell back by individual household. As I said, don't expect to see such in my generation.

Meters yet to be found, tested, and approved. We are talking abt alternating current with 50Hz +/- 0.02% skew rate, with less than 27% input current harmonics with total sum of 3rd, 5rd, 7th, 9th & 11th orders. Frequency synchronisation is a big big technical challeng. EMC is another one. Selling back price rate(adjustment made within meter) will be the last issue. Each time price change, must adjust mter & seal it. Only "authorised" personnel can do this.

For small scale, can always buy solar panel and try out some little projects. Jet hobby sells some solar panel:

http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/ezsite/...=113&gid=25

Edited August 8, 2010 by bepgof

[watchthewaves 0]

Power providers can close shop liao if can sell back by individual household. As I said, don't expect to see such in my generation.

Meters yet to be found, tested, and approved. We are talking abt alternating current with 50Hz +/- 0.02% skew rate, with less than 27% input current harmonics with total sum of 3rd, 5rd, 7th, 9th & 11th orders. Frequency synchronisation is a big big technical challeng. EMC is another one. Selling back price rate(adjustment made within meter) will be the last issue. Each time price change, must adjust mter & seal it. Only "authorised" personnel can do this.

For small scale, can always buy solar panel and try out some little projects. Jet hobby sells some solar panel:

http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/ezsite/...=113&gid=25

Seems like it just sneaked up on you then.

For these who are interested, this is a good starting point to read up:

EMA handbook for PV systems

kardtoon,

You've got PM.

Edited August 9, 2010 by watchthewaves

[marble 0]

<!--quoteo(post=562602:date=Aug 8 2010, 06:03 PM:name=bepgof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bepgof @ Aug 8 2010, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=562602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power providers can close shop liao if can sell back by individual household. As I said, don't expect to see such in my generation.

Meters yet to be found, tested, and approved. We are talking abt alternating current with 50Hz +/- 0.02% skew rate, with less than 27% input current harmonics with total sum of 3rd, 5rd, 7th, 9th & 11th orders. Frequency synchronisation is a big big technical challeng. EMC is another one. Selling back price rate(adjustment made within meter) will be the last issue. Each time price change, must adjust mter & seal it. Only "authorised" personnel can do this.

For small scale, can always buy solar panel and try out some little projects. Jet hobby sells some solar panel:

<a href="http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/ezsite/prod/manager.cgi?action=list&cid=113&gid=25" target="_blank">http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/ezsite/...=113&gid=25</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seems like it just sneaked up on you then.

For these who are interested, this is a good starting point to read up:

<a href="http://www.ema.gov.sg/media/files/books/pv_handbook/20080509114101_9803_PV_Handbook_25apr08.pdf" target="_blank">EMA handbook for PV systems</a>

kardtoon,

You've got PM.

I've been thinking of this, my unit is sort of east-west facing and I'm installing awning/roofing in both my balcony and recess area. Is this a feasible idea??

[bepgof 20]

I've been thinking of this, my unit is sort of east-west facing and I'm installing awning/roofing in both my balcony and recess area. Is this a feasible idea??

The on-grid photovoltaic system (or called PV + on-grid inverter) is getting more popular.

Power One. http://www.power-one.com/renewable-energy

AEG Power Solution...http://www.aegps.com/en/company/worldwide-presence/

are the "leaders" on this in Singapore, some experimental trials in Ponggol, Jurong.

The system "sell" power to Sing Power by meter registering, without DC battery support. At night or dark day time, owners "buy" power from sing power like you & me. The "problem" now lies with the "metering" and the reliability of switching from one source to another and back & forth....might cause power surge/glitch/trip, etc.