The Best Journey Always Leads Us Home

[LADY_R 0]

Perhaps I need to be more proactive? My reaction is always a huge heaving of shoulders then a pitiful squeak of "okay...". I definitely don't "chase" my ID, or call every day, much lest every hour. Because I'm female, I think the contractors hate working with me, thinking I don't understand certain things etc. They often sound irritated or tell me stuff like "Talk is easy, Mam, but it's not so easy to do! You think so easy?? You say, say, say but you don't know how we need to do it!" etc. I'd simply say "I'm calling the ID" and walk out, and leave them to deal with the ID because it's obvious they won't listen to me. After a phonecall with the ID, they say it can be done and explain to me how it'd look like.

Some of the previous contractors also made me uneasy as they stare at me longer than socially polite periods, so I tend to retreat to the balcony. I could also be "too nice" - buying them lunch, drinks, or providing ashtrays even after we told them no more smoking in the house (since the furniture is in). They walk around with their cigarettes so I just follow them with an ashtray... or pick up their butts from the floor and just throw them away without saying anything.

Doormat much?

- Ely

ELY, really sorry to hear about your reno progress, my only guess is you are too nice to them?. Example~ the way they answer you, I will consider that as rude! As for now don't waste your time on them. Anything just shoot on your ID. Deal everything with him like how you want your pipe to run, ur lighting points, etc etc.. & if you find some of your items missing don't just keep quiet..once u realise it straight away call your ID, inform him..and tell him if they don't return the missing lots.. you going to deduct from the bills. Sometimes, we have to be nasty though we don't love doing it. If you find it difficult to deal with this people, let the Husband do this part. Call your ID every day will help actually, you can just call him and ask "So what is the programm for today?" heee this is what I always did to my contractor..they need to update you on the progress everyday. I hope everything will go on smoothly after this, no more hiccups..and you be able to move to your new house

[boyblunder 0]

Hey Ely, soory to hear about your misadventures. But look on the bright side, u can only learn from all these. It's not easy for a nice person to suddenly turn nasty but sometimes you just have to do it, else they will climb all over your head. Most of the advice has been said. just wanna tell you that things should only get better, and once everything is done up, you will be so happi living in a place you really call home.

DON"T FRET THE SMALL STUFF!!

[RimBlock 0]

Thanks for everything RB.

Np, happy to help. I am only sitting at work err.... working .

Yeah, same thoughts - Need more hard disks!! Thanks to you, we saved quite a bit on the cables - these $30/4 work great, along with the 3 free HDMI cables that came with the TVs and AC Ryan.

Again, glad to help..... more beer and icecream money for you .

We already specified a date for moving. We had a lorry arranged to move all our crap! We've moved quite a substantial stuff already - even The Husband's clothes are in the wardrobes but we realise we need to stop putting stuff in the house due to things going missing, and more exposed stuff means more to clean. There is always some form of plastering, sealing, drilling done and the cleaning is endless! I'm just going to keep a hawk's eye when they do touch up painting - Don't want my ceiling mounted speakers marred!!

I understand your position, honestly I do and I tend to be on the softer side of pushing although I do have the advantage of being a fairly big westerner and so people have preconceived ideas about me being forceful and abrupt . Oh and I can be very stubborn .

From what you have said I would arrange a meeting around a table with your ID, you and hubby. Ask for a list of outstanding works, a schedule of who will be completing when. Fix the final date and mention about things seeming to be miss placed. Make sure the ID knows that either he or your husband need to be on site when any workers are doing the work and you do not feel so comfortable being alone with the workers. He should understand and it is his job to keep the worker on schedule. Point out that the balcony is the only smoking area and he needs to inform all the workers. Advise him that any workers found to be smoking anywhere in your apartment other than the balcony will be asked to leave and not come back and a bill for cleaning the clothes and furniture will be forwarded to him. Make it clear that you are publishing the details of the renovation on the renotalk forums for everyone to see. If he cannot give you a completion date he can stick to then ask him who in his company can. He may not have the power to force the sub-contractors to meet schedules but someone in his company has.

Post up the list of outstanding works, his schedule and track it here. Make sure you include both your IDs name and his company name on every update. If the deadlines start slipping again then ask who in his company can get them back on track and call / write to them making sure you provide the link to your blog so they know their performance is being recorded.

Bottom line is that you are paying for a service within a set time frame and they are failing to deliver. You need to remove the personal connection and look at it as if this was a business property and you are now loosing money because you cannot open. People will take advantage of your kindness even if you think you have a good connection / working relationship with them. Sales people are notorious for this.

If it helps, do some role playing (in persona only, don't actually paint yourself blue and carry a plastic axe to the table when meeting you ID ). Would your WoW character accept these delays and be so nice carrying an ash tray because the workers will not stop smoking. Go get a whistle and blow it a lot when the workers are staring at you or doing something you don't like or get a cane and slap it on to a table. Take them back to their school days. Please video it as I am sure it would be fantastic to watch all the workers running scared . Hopefully if nothing else that has brought a smile to you and hubbys faces.

I actually appreciate brutal honesty so it's no reflection on you I do enjoy your insightful input, and I believe many RT-ers have gained so much knowledge and guidance from someone so well-versed in the area of HTS, and being open about your opinions, even going the extra mile by providing links to unbiased reviews and such. You've always been so considerate in your comments (except to f******nuts - but that troll is simply annoying and I'm certain many are glad you're ballsy enough to repudiate his ridiculous remarks, or else we would all be buying hugely expensive anti-Brit systems with $200 cables). You're a joy to have around, and I'm sure you can teach me more than a thing or two about our system, and definitely about not having to change settings with every song/movie!

Ha-ha, you are really too kind. I am in a position where I can offer an alternative perspective on things having never been though your education system and coming from a different culture. Some of those views may be helpful and some may have no place for people in Singapore but it is nice to know the majority of my longgggggg posts are helpful to at least some others. I am an analyst by trade and back in the UK had friends who were pretty quick to pick up on any mistakes in how you phrase things or inaccurate information. To this end I tend to be very careful about how I phrase things and usually do checks before posting something as fact. I also like to research what others say and make up my own mind and so provide the links so others can do the same. I am not here to tell people what to think but to point them to decent info so they can make their own mind up. As I am sure you are aware, I never tell people to buy this or that when talking about HTS but point them at choices so they can make up their own mind.

FKN is an amusing distraction and has provided me with a reason to dig deeper in to various areas of HTS in order to provide evidence that he is 'confused'. I cannot count how many times I have deleted the phrase 'are you a complete moron' from my replies to him as personal attacks are a bit too much .

I am happy to share what I know and open to learn more so I am just glad I can help others and it is always nice to make new friends.

Thanks for the encouragement - it REALLY is not special! Perhaps the problems have dampened my enthusiasm for the home, but the more I look at it, the more cookie-cutter it seems. It's so... normal, and there's no false modesty here! (Afterall, no Queen is humble)

Ok, now I think I have to be brutal (A kick with size 11 boots hopefully wrapped in pillows for you) .

Stop and take a breath and a look around. Look at the before photos you have posted. Those photos are of a fairly nice place compared to the average in Singapore. Do you remember what some of the other places you looked at were like. If it was anything like some we saw then what you class as 'nothing special' is not the average in Singapore. Just by virtue of being able to to have a reno your place is special. Now take a step back and look at all the wonderful things you have bought to 'dress up' your apartment. Things that almost no one else will have in Singapore. How is that not special. If you are comparing with places you have lived in Aus then maybe it is not so special, just like me comparing my basic reno with places in the UK but we are now in Singapore. What you have is something very special indeed but you need to be able to step back to take a good look compared with the bigger picture. Not special is 30 year old original condition . Just because you have not got stacks of fancy laminates everywhere, does not make it not special. I am sure with your eye for detail that the sum of the parts will be better than the whole. Standing in the center of the whirlwind stops you seeing the big picture and familiarity breeds contempt.

Ok, boots off .

RB

[Caraval 0]

Hi Caraval,

It's been a while! Glad to know you're still lurking about Which piece of Jon Allen's did you get? His work is pretty amazing!

Come over in June, I say. Will be nice to meet like-minded people

- Ely

This was the one we got, thanks for your recommendation, we really love the piece

Now just waiting for the actual delivery!

Sorry to hear about your problems with your reno... guess everybody has their fair share of problems and you are a tad more unlucky. It is an experience, part of the journey.. you really sound too nice! I can be guilty of that too since I don't think I can be mean to my contractors as well.. totally understand what you mean when you can't just turn nasty overnight! i'm just lucky that my ID is my best friend who handles everything for me.. Am honored to be invited to visit your place, I'll stay tuned on this thread

[Ely1 0]

hihi, have you found your 3D glasses yet? I have a piece which I bought from Hong Kong, a bit cheapo but you can have it if you need it.

Feel free to PM me if you need it.

Ooh, how did I miss this post? What a generous offer, Justin, but we can't accept. Thank you sooo very much though. It's so heartwarming when virtual strangers are so giving - it sometimes beats being in the real world.

The 3D glasses are definitely gone - they left the empty box and warranty card in the drawer as evidence ! Now I just need to turn CSI and dust for fingerprints...

Not so bad though, the ID is a nice enough guy and will deduct the price of it from the final bill. He claims responsibility for any and every item we've placed in the house - he even replaced my dustpan when I told him it was missing! *warm fuzzies*

- Ely

[adidaem 6]

Hi Ely,

I've enjoyed reading about your reno journey (and shopping tips) alot. So sorry to hear about your bad experiences. Think some of the stuff I've read like the smoking and leering is really too much... you must really have the patience of a saint! If I were you I would tell my ID if there are any cigarette marks, stains or smell, I'll make sure to deduct the clean-up and replacement cost from the final bill.

Hope things are resolved soon and you take care of yourself k? Hang in there!

[Ely1 0]

Hi Ely,

I've enjoyed reading about your reno journey (and shopping tips) alot. So sorry to hear about your bad experiences. Think some of the stuff I've read like the smoking and leering is really too much... you must really have the patience of a saint! If I were you I would tell my ID if there are any cigarette marks, stains or smell, I'll make sure to deduct the clean-up and replacement cost from the final bill.

Hope things are resolved soon and you take care of yourself k? Hang in there!

Thank you Adidaem The Husband can attest that I'm no saint, one of the most common things he ask me is "why are you so irritated?!" ! I guess RB is right - familiarity does breed contempt haha! The only time I said something about the smoking was when I caught them smoking while using kerosene to clean... I think my biggest pet peeve that sets off the irascibility is stupidity.

Received a parcel from Australia today while I was at the house, containing all of Bondi's toys I'd bought him when he was younger. THAT really cheered me up, cleaning all his toys and vacuuming each one individually (oh curse the Virgo!!) and putting it in his toy box, which now claims a spot underneath the TV console. Not the most aesthetically-pleasing, but it's the most practical and I don't mind that clutter one bit.

- Ely

[Ely1 0]

This was the one we got, thanks for your recommendation, we really love the piece

Now just waiting for the actual delivery!

Sorry to hear about your problems with your reno... guess everybody has their fair share of problems and you are a tad more unlucky. It is an experience, part of the journey.. you really sound too nice! I can be guilty of that too since I don't think I can be mean to my contractors as well.. totally understand what you mean when you can't just turn nasty overnight! i'm just lucky that my ID is my best friend who handles everything for me.. Am honored to be invited to visit your place, I'll stay tuned on this thread

Beautiful piece! Remember to follow his advice about lighting, or else the movement would be diminished. I wanted that as well but it was too wide for my beam Makes me feel better that I wasn't counter-bidding you Do post some pics of your reno and if you're too busy to start a t-blog, I don't mind you hijacking my thread at all! Would love to see how that clock looks in your home.

We'll love to have you over. I'm glad your renovation process is much less of a hassle than mine - lucky you to have your best friend having your back! Sometimes business mixed with friendships can be tricky but it sounds like yours is a resounding success! Congrats, and I hope it continues to go smoothly for you.

- Ely

[Ely1 0]

Sis Ely, very sorry to hear that, but there are definately positives too.... enjoy the process although sometimes the process do gets a little annoying.. .....

cool cool ok.... just think of the beautiful finish product - your beautiful home.... and I'm sure you'll feel great

Thank you Kobelala. Will meditate for I'm sure all that binge eating sure can use some yoga and pilates. Feel like a whale at the moment.

ELY, really sorry to hear about your reno progress, my only guess is you are too nice to them?. Example~ the way they answer you, I will consider that as rude! As for now don't waste your time on them. Anything just shoot on your ID. Deal everything with him like how you want your pipe to run, ur lighting points, etc etc.. & if you find some of your items missing don't just keep quiet..once u realise it straight away call your ID, inform him..and tell him if they don't return the missing lots.. you going to deduct from the bills. Sometimes, we have to be nasty though we don't love doing it. If you find it difficult to deal with this people, let the Husband do this part. Call your ID every day will help actually, you can just call him and ask "So what is the programm for today?" heee this is what I always did to my contractor..they need to update you on the progress everyday. I hope everything will go on smoothly after this, no more hiccups..and you be able to move to your new house

Hey Lady R,

So kind of you to be so comforting. I don't know if I can call my ID everyday - I'd feel like I'm bothering him and be an irritant? I don't want to be one of those difficult clients >< I think my biggest problem is that I fear to be not nice. I don't want to come across as mean or demanding or annoying. However, your daily program request does sound very reasonable and takes the edge out of meanness, because it sounds more like a "hey, what are you up to today?" conversation you'd have with a friend. Perhaps I'll try that, good one Lady R!

I'm really not THAT nice a person (how The Husband would scoff if he reads this), just that I get intimidated when the tradespeople use their expertise (or in this case, over-exaggerated concerns) to bully me into acquiescence. Imagine if you'd have to re-hack the whole vanity, sink, granite top, tap, tiles in order to simply remove a pipe - it just doesn't sound like it's worth the effort? Yet common sense in me persisted because I couldn't see the logic in that, which made me tell them curtly "I'm calling the ID".

They came today to rectify the mistake and it took 1.5hrs.../boggle

The ID spoke to me this evening and said that he would deal with all the workers from now on, and that I only need to tell them what I want them to do, and for them to call him should they protest, so that's very reassuring. I hate being bullied or seen as the ditzy chick they can pull a fast one with.

Hey Ely, soory to hear about your misadventures. But look on the bright side, u can only learn from all these. It's not easy for a nice person to suddenly turn nasty but sometimes you just have to do it, else they will climb all over your head. Most of the advice has been said. just wanna tell you that things should only get better, and once everything is done up, you will be so happi living in a place you really call home.

DON"T FRET THE SMALL STUFF!!

Thank you boyblunder for your empathetic concern. The doormat mentality comes from poor self-esteem I suppose. /shrug It explains why the online persona is larger than myself. People really do call me Ely in real life, you know (Even my brothers call me Ely~)

I certainly hope so too, and once everything is nicely done up, everyone's invited!

- Ely

[Ely1 0]

Advice for what it's worth. It's your house and anyone including guests (much less employees) should behave with respect when they're in it...I think it not setting the bar too high to insist on discipline in the worksite. If you say no smoking that's what it should mean. This is your ID's responsibilty.

With all respect to your obviously kind nature, get your husband involved directly with the ID and light a fire under his butt. The "hand wringing" from the ID is not a solution. If the ID is incompetent the firm employing the ID is responsible and needs to take action to make rapid rectification. The ID is not your friend doing you a favour, he is providing a service for which you are paying handsomely.

From what you say, if I were your Dad I'd be well Pi**ed if someone so incompetent was given a personal referal to me! At the very least use this contract as a lever with your ID i.e. "either you deliver by XXXX or kiss the future opportunity goodbye" .

I am totally in awe that you maintain your sense of depreciating humour in the midst of all this...kudos to you.

Get your husband or ex-military Dad to take up the current unacceptable situation with the general management of your ID's firm; this is when family support counts and we all have different skills'strengths.

Hang in there! RMG

Hiya RMG,

Even I don't smoke in my own house so it's weird that they have the audacity to do it in front of me, but never when the ID or The Husband is around. As mentioned in earlier post, only time I did put my foot down was when the smoking was actually hazardous. Thinner and Xylene in a tight bathroom with lit cigarettes. Not too bright.

I understand where you, and the many others, who have suggested the involvement of The Husband, are coming from, but I'm presently playing the middle-(wo)man for a reason. The Husband is seriously agitated (and he has every right to be) and the ID is so profusely apologetic and accommodating and I just don't want either of them to feel any more worse. I deal with the house now so The Husband gets a break from being frustrated, and the ID gets a break from the passive-aggressive husband who earlier just told him, albeit calmly, "Don't let it come to a time when I have to scream and yell at you - it's going to be very ugly". I know The Husband is only protecting our interests yet I couldn't help but feel bad for the ID when he was "chastised".

Hmm, it is true that the ID wants my parents' project because he mentioned how bored and uninspired he is of doing a whole chain of government flats and condos. If I were less naive, I'd think it's more about the 6-7-figure sum. I know this is my leverage but I'd hate to be so manipulative though logically, it's only fair that he eventually does not get the job because of his inability to meet deadlines. He has, however, assured my parents that this won't happen now that he has his own team of contractors, all of which meet or exceed his stringent standards.

I checked the project schedule more carefully and realised that 30 April was inclusive of the 2 week buffer. We were told 6 - 8 weeks, hence the 2 weeks buffer time. We've not been given the final bill yet so I really don't want to go over his head at this time either. I would have no qualms taking it up with his upper management if we're made to pay for his mistakes, though I don't know how effective that would be, since he has already officially left the firm and is merely finishing his projects with them. It could the underlying reason why ours is more "problematic" than his other projects since naturally, he would concentrate more on his own company's projects instead of a disgruntled ex-firm's.

Oh, it's much easier to laugh things off than to expend all that energy in being angry. It's too tiring a state to sustain, but so is stuffing face. Someone call Greenpeace pls!

- Ely

Edited May 20, 2011 by Ely1

[patsy_sg 1]

hang in there Ely, the end will be there soon!

I'm still in the midst of looking for a builder/ID and the first quote I got was charging me $350k, even if I had emphasized that I didn't need a total rebuilt as the house was rebuilt 2 years ago!! Imagine charging me $20k for plumbing, $28k for aircon and almost $90k on carpentry!! I almost fainted when they said they wanted to change the newly laid parquet so it will be "nice"!!!!

[footprint 0]

patsy,

20k for plumbing? they seriously think those in landed property are "carrot"? -_-"

ely,

ya, perhaps as lady_r suggested, ask for daily updates.

actually i feel u too nice to handle the ID or the workers.

should let your husband do the talking..

though he is quite pissed off now (which i will definitely be, if i'm u)

and pls.. dun ask the ID to do ur parents house (of course, don't tell him now)

If he cant handle yours (which it seems yours do not have major renovation), i don't see how he can handle ur parents one... -_-"

[patsy_sg 1]

footprint, friend of mine (from the forum actually) asked me if they were running the pipes through the nile!!

ely, like what a lot of ppl said, you be the good guy, give coffee,cakes, etc. then let your hb be the bad guy and crack the whip!

[Ely1 0]

hang in there Ely, the end will be there soon!

I'm still in the midst of looking for a builder/ID and the first quote I got was charging me $350k, even if I had emphasized that I didn't need a total rebuilt as the house was rebuilt 2 years ago!! Imagine charging me $20k for plumbing, $28k for aircon and almost $90k on carpentry!! I almost fainted when they said they wanted to change the newly laid parquet so it will be "nice"!!!!

The last time my parents' house was done up (about 10 yrs ago), they charged 40k for aircon... Total of 9 aircons I think? Ridiculous! There would probably be more in this reno phase, would let you know.

- Ely

[Ely1 0]

patsy,

20k for plumbing? they seriously think those in landed property are "carrot"? -_-"

ely,

ya, perhaps as lady_r suggested, ask for daily updates.

actually i feel u too nice to handle the ID or the workers.

should let your husband do the talking..

though he is quite pissed off now (which i will definitely be, if i'm u)

and pls.. dun ask the ID to do ur parents house (of course, don't tell him now)

If he cant handle yours (which it seems yours do not have major renovation), i don't see how he can handle ur parents one... -_-"

Well, if he's left the company, he would have full reign of the sub-cons he wants to work with, so I anticipate it should be less problematic for him (or for my parents). Besides, my father would NOT take any minor error lightly so the ID would have to be very on the ball. I do think my ID is honest and alright to deal with, just that the coordination problems should have been better taken care of, and he has a bad habit of not "remembering" what was discussed. Sometimes I do not always follow up with an email (and this is my folly, given that I am aware of this trait) so it becomes a he said, she said situation.

Perhaps he'll learn from this mistakes and become more effectual at project management. *glass half full*

- Ely